149 Marketing Magic: Danielle Clark's Expert Tips for Indie Podcasters

[00:00:00] Most of us in the podcasters struggle with the marketing side of our podcast

[00:00:06] Where do we market? Who do we market to? Well, let's ask the marketing expert

[00:00:18] Sound matters be heard

[00:00:21] Welcome to the podcast where you get exclusive behind-the-scenes tips to make your own show sound truly spectacular. This is

[00:00:29] Podtastic Audio

[00:00:33] Hey, what's happening? How are you doing today? Thank you so much for being here. I am Chris and yeah, this is

[00:00:41] Podtastic Audio the show which I have designed specifically to help you

[00:00:47] Create and craft a better amazing show for your audience without having to spend

[00:00:53] Thousands if yet not millions of dollars to make it happen now you can podcast about whatever you want

[00:01:00] So the pretty much the sky's the limit, you know

[00:01:02] You can podcast about your favorite dog

[00:01:04] You can podcast about your favorite car you can podcast about your favorite movie or style of movies that you like to watch

[00:01:12] TV shows whatever have fun enjoy your podcast adventure

[00:01:17] You know recently I was talking with somebody about podcasting

[00:01:20] They told me that they just started listening to podcasting audio and they were telling me they were listening all the way back in the very beginning

[00:01:27] Of the podcast and I'm thinking like oh my gosh those episodes way back then they first off

[00:01:33] They were recorded on different gear with different equipment with different sound processing on a totally different computer

[00:01:39] In an entirely different house, so it may sound a little different than they do today

[00:01:44] And that's the thing about any podcast really is that you do evolve as you go along with your podcast

[00:01:50] Episode one or two or you have episode five or seven

[00:01:54] They're not gonna sound the same as episode 200

[00:01:58] It's gonna sound way different because you evolve as you do this

[00:02:03] It's like with anything you do you usually get better at your job

[00:02:07] Versus day one versus, you know a year ten of doing the same thing

[00:02:12] Typically you're a little better at it

[00:02:13] But he was telling me that he was considering himself starting a podcast

[00:02:17] but I think all the gear and all the tech and all the different things really start to really overwhelm you if

[00:02:24] You're not really focused on what you're gonna talk about who your podcast is gonna be for and

[00:02:30] Why you're gonna finish will be doing it the technology part can pretty much figure itself out

[00:02:35] It does not take a lot of gear and equipment and money to get a podcast off the ground

[00:02:41] You really can do it with a simple USB microphone

[00:02:44] And if you are first starting out into your podcasting journey, you do not need to spend thousands of dollars on stuff a

[00:02:52] Simple $70 Samsung Q2u microphone will do the trick

[00:02:58] It's amazing you can plug it into your computer any computer with us viewport

[00:03:02] And if you decide to get an audio interface or a console mixer something like that

[00:03:07] Guess what that microphone can plug directly into that too it can do both

[00:03:12] So if you are a brand new podcaster in just launch with just a few episodes

[00:03:17] You got one two five episodes recorded ready to go

[00:03:21] They're out there in the wild for people to listen to but you want to get people to listen to your stuff

[00:03:25] How do you do that? Well today? I'm inviting my good friend Daniel Clark from

[00:03:31] No more late fees podcast her podcast is doing amazing. She does it with her friend Jackie

[00:03:38] They both worked at blockbuster video and they review movies from the years

[00:03:45] 1990s to early 2000s

[00:03:47] But not only is she an amazing podcaster

[00:03:51] Her regular full-time job is in marketing so using her skills in her marketing job

[00:03:59] She was able to put those into practice with her podcast

[00:04:03] So today she is going to give you some amazing tips on how to best market your podcast

[00:04:11] No matter what kind of podcast you have no matter where you are starting out in your podcast journey from day one

[00:04:18] She is going to tell you exactly what you need to do the best

[00:04:22] Position your podcast to be successful

[00:04:25] So please enjoy my conversation with Danielle Clark

[00:04:30] Jackie my co-host and I were best friends and we used to we met in high school, which is like the 95 part

[00:04:37] And then we also worked at blockbuster

[00:04:41] Right around high school towards college. So we figured those two decades

[00:04:46] Really summed up our friendship and our relationship with blockbuster

[00:04:51] So that's why we picked those two decades and your show is absolutely crushing it out there

[00:04:56] I was looking at it and you have such a huge following

[00:04:59] You are doing wonders and I would think because now don't you do something with marketing?

[00:05:05] You are a marketing expert so to speak. I

[00:05:08] Yes mark. I do marketing for a living. I

[00:05:13] Do one-on-one coaching with people who I've been in the industry for over 10 years

[00:05:20] So I was lucky enough to have that experience to be able to put it back into the podcast. That's great

[00:05:27] That's that's wonderful stuff. So so starting with the podcast itself if somebody were to start a podcast today

[00:05:33] Let's just say an audio only podcast

[00:05:36] I do know there's things on YouTube and Instagram and things like that

[00:05:40] But let's just say a regular person started their their podcast as an audio podcast

[00:05:46] They got the idea they recorded their first episode

[00:05:50] What would be the first thing you would suggest them doing to get their podcast out to the masses? I

[00:05:56] Would get out of pen and paper and the first thing you need to do is ask yourself

[00:06:02] what makes my podcast unique or

[00:06:07] Special I guess you could say and that's not to say like there

[00:06:11] I think there's room for a million movie podcasts a million different

[00:06:17] True crime podcasts, but I think if you don't know

[00:06:21] What would make your podcast the reason the reason why somebody would want to listen to it every week?

[00:06:29] You're going to lose yourself when you start marketing. So I think that's the most important is to ask yourself

[00:06:35] What what is it about my podcast and it could be more, you know, it doesn't have to be just one thing it could be

[00:06:43] Different a list of things

[00:06:45] Once you figure that out that helps you figure out. What are the kinds of content? You should be sharing

[00:06:51] for example for my podcast the thing that I feel makes our special is

[00:06:57] Me and my co-host that we're best friends and that we used to work at blockbuster the blockbuster element

[00:07:03] The nostalgia of it all but it's all those things kind of put together

[00:07:08] So I know I'm going to make sure that I have content that speaks to that nostalgia

[00:07:13] I'm gonna have content that speaks to our friendship

[00:07:16] Like showing our old high school pictures. We just did a video on that the other day

[00:07:21] Because we know that we're building a community people care about that so mixing that in as well

[00:07:26] and then of course the movies that we're featuring and

[00:07:30] Clips from our episodes. I

[00:07:33] Think one of the biggest mistakes I made when I first started our Instagram and TikTok account

[00:07:40] was that I

[00:07:41] Was focusing so much on the nostalgia

[00:07:45] The special sauce is the special thing that I already identified about our podcast

[00:07:50] Which was my co-host and I in our relationship and that relationship with blockbuster

[00:07:54] Was slowly like fading away to the point where I felt like our audience didn't even know we had a podcast

[00:08:02] Really? Yeah, so I had to take a step back and recalibrate and again, that's why I said it's so important to write that

[00:08:12] you know

[00:08:13] Uniqueness what makes unique?

[00:08:16] Why would people listen to your podcast you want to come back to that?

[00:08:19] Because that's gonna really feed your content

[00:08:22] Yeah

[00:08:23] I kind of think that a lot of people when they start a podcast myself included is that you get the thing going you

[00:08:28] Start it out and then you kind of wonder like

[00:08:31] Why would someone listen to my show of all the shows out there?

[00:08:35] Like what makes my show so unique and I think a lot of people will look kind of fall into the well

[00:08:40] It's me my buddy Joe, you know, we're we're funny or whatever, but are you really funny?

[00:08:45] You know like I mean I know you think you're funny, but are you really that funny and then you know

[00:08:50] They have nothing no real core

[00:08:53] Content to kind of leverage or maybe they do maybe it's a movie thing for example, you know

[00:08:57] And things like that, but then what is the draw to the show?

[00:09:01] Is it you guys being the funny or is it the movie itself being the draw to the show?

[00:09:06] I kind of wondered like how do you balance that thing?

[00:09:08] Right. Well the movie is gonna be the thing that stops

[00:09:12] It's the scroll stopping right like when you're scrolling if you see the movie that you like

[00:09:17] Then you're gonna stop for a second and then you have a short period of time

[00:09:22] Once they stop scrolling to catch their attention with something else, you know

[00:09:26] it's not just gonna be the movie so I think it's a combination and

[00:09:32] So the second step after figuring out what makes you unique is

[00:09:36] You need to write down who is my target audience

[00:09:41] Right. You're your actual listener. Who's the show for right because I think so many

[00:09:49] podcasters are trying to

[00:09:51] throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks that

[00:09:54] That you can't just throw a net and try to get everybody you could possibly get you want to start

[00:10:00] With people who are going to be loyal

[00:10:04] Ravid fans because they're gonna be the ones that are gonna help you with the heavy lifting

[00:10:09] What do you mean by heavy lifting? What are they gonna do?

[00:10:13] Because it's much easier to have a hundred fans that really love your show

[00:10:21] Then to have ten thousand followers and nobody's really paying attention

[00:10:25] Yeah, and that happens a lot you look at some of those those podcasts and stuff like that or or

[00:10:32] Just Instagram pages look at look at their engagement. You know, are they getting comments?

[00:10:39] You know, they might get likes but is there any kind of rapport community building there?

[00:10:45] Yeah, I always think that's very important to have the feedback whether it's on social media or emails or whatever it is in general

[00:10:52] That really kind of tells whether or not people are physically listening to the thing and they're physically

[00:10:57] Pay at least paying attention to the thing that you're creating out there

[00:11:00] So the second thing is make sure you know who you're talking to and get

[00:11:06] basically a dedicated core of people to

[00:11:09] At least follow you and please pay attention to what you're saying

[00:11:13] Right and that goes to

[00:11:16] Once you identify like for us, we're like, okay, we know that we are targeting

[00:11:22] Elder Millennials like ourselves and younger Millennials

[00:11:26] Also, we might pull in a little bit of Gen Z

[00:11:28] But you're not going to be targeting your third tier group

[00:11:34] Okay, because they're not your core if you get them great

[00:11:38] But you want to make sure you're focusing on your core audience and so that is looking like

[00:11:45] You know people who are me and Jackie's ages who experience blockbuster and these movies in real time

[00:11:52] Now you always want to come back to this

[00:11:56] You can't just pick a target audience and just go about your business for like six years

[00:12:00] You always have to come back because the great thing about social media is you have all these analytics

[00:12:04] So you can start to see

[00:12:07] What those stats look like you could start to see

[00:12:10] I've got 50% men fit in 50% women or have 70% men

[00:12:16] I never thought that would happen like you're able to see

[00:12:19] Who your audience is starting to become on social and you might need to pivot because that is not

[00:12:26] Who your target audiences or you have to look at what content am I doing and

[00:12:32] Sometimes your target audience might you might have to shift what you're doing because you're like, okay

[00:12:37] Maybe my target audience was not that

[00:12:40] Elder millennial group. Maybe this is my where I need to pivot a little bit because the stats are now telling me who I'm attracting

[00:12:48] So you have to like be able to pay attention to that as well to make sure that you're kind of

[00:12:54] sticking to where you need to go

[00:12:56] Yeah, and sometimes your podcast at least this one here podcastic audio has evolved from day one till now

[00:13:02] I've changed it quite a bit and I kind of steered away from I know in the early days

[00:13:07] I had you on probably some other shows on is that I would just bring anybody on the podcast just talk with the podcast

[00:13:12] Come on. I've kind of steered away from from that

[00:13:15] I've kind of pushed more towards like if this is going to deliver value to the audience of

[00:13:21] Podcasters, that's the core people I want on the show. I don't want a bunch of randoms

[00:13:25] Just coming in, you know talking about their day and their stuff

[00:13:28] Which there are a lot of podcasts that do that they'll have their buddies on or whatever and they'll talk about the randomness of it all

[00:13:34] The good old days of 2020 whenever he was kind of bored not doing nothing

[00:13:38] So they would just have their buddies on and call it a podcast. I want to steer clear of a lot stuff

[00:13:43] I'm only here to deliver value directly to the listener about podcasting

[00:13:47] And if any guest that comes on does not deliver that I'm not having them on

[00:13:51] right

[00:13:52] Yeah, and that's perfect. I think

[00:13:55] That speaks to one of the hardest things

[00:13:59] That we've had to adjust to

[00:14:02] What we never really thought was going to happen is we get a lot of requests for people to be on the show

[00:14:07] almost to the fact that some people

[00:14:09] Some people approach us as if

[00:14:12] They they deserve to be on the show or like it's given. Yes. It's very uncomfortable

[00:14:19] And it's really hard to say no

[00:14:23] One of our strategies was

[00:14:26] finding people

[00:14:28] Who are influencers who were who we're talking about things that were in our niche

[00:14:33] um, and we learned a few hard lessons there because

[00:14:37] People who have youtube channels or our tick talks some people are not good on the cuff

[00:14:42] They're not good to be able to kind of like riff like Jackie and I do on the show

[00:14:48] So we see them have these care

[00:14:51] charismatic personalities

[00:14:53] And then they come on the show and it's like we had our friends and family saying, oh my god

[00:14:58] You didn't let that person talk. We're like trust us the stuff we edited now

[00:15:02] Like we could not get them to talk

[00:15:05] so one of the suggestions that I would give from our learned experience there is try to do a live or

[00:15:12] um, a spaces or

[00:15:14] Phone call to kind of see if you vibe with that person if they

[00:15:19] Get what you're talking about and also as a guest if you are going on someone's show

[00:15:26] Do the courtesy to at least listen to that person's show. Oh, are you camera?

[00:15:30] I can't believe how many times when

[00:15:31] Christina and I would have a guest come on and we'd ask them

[00:15:34] Have you listened to our show and it was probably nine out of ten times the answer was no

[00:15:39] And i'm like, oh, okay

[00:15:41] All right, so here's how we do our show. It's not I mean it's not scripted. It's a conversation

[00:15:46] It's we we have bullet points. We have ideas to talk about

[00:15:50] But it's I mean it throws them off sometimes, you know and

[00:15:53] And they're not ready for it and some people who do listen

[00:15:56] They do benefit because they do get the flow they get to get the idea of the show

[00:16:00] So it does benefit them

[00:16:02] But you'd be surprised how many people just spray and pray out there just get on as many shows as possible

[00:16:06] Even shows that aren't even related to the content like like I've got people want to come on this show and and it's not even related to

[00:16:14] podcasting so

[00:16:16] And or or even people that have a have a podcast they want to just come on and talk about or something like that but

[00:16:21] um this podcast with your podcast the listeners podcast

[00:16:25] It's your baby and you should really protect it and not try to just like

[00:16:29] Let any strange your babysit

[00:16:32] Yeah, I think

[00:16:35] What ends up happening and we've all fallen for this because we're we love our shows and we're so

[00:16:42] desperate to try to

[00:16:44] get exposure

[00:16:46] And so um, I think it's okay to be

[00:16:50] Uh a little bit more cautious and that's why I'm really drilling in that you have to write some of these things down

[00:16:58] So that you one you have something to look back on but it and it helps you stay aligned and focus

[00:17:04] So you got your target audience, you know what your special uniqueness is?

[00:17:09] Um, and then it's community building right okay

[00:17:13] so

[00:17:14] You're gonna notice pretty quickly if you get

[00:17:18] We call them besties on our show

[00:17:20] If you get new besties who discover the show they direct message you they

[00:17:26] Are always the first to comment, you know, you want to show them love you want to build that

[00:17:31] Parasocial relationship with them

[00:17:33] Um, because again, they're going to be the ones that are going to share it on their stories

[00:17:38] They're going to tell their friends about it

[00:17:40] Also when I get a new follower sometimes

[00:17:43] Or someone shares something I always ask hey

[00:17:47] How did you hear about us?

[00:17:50] That's like really really helpful

[00:17:52] When you're starting I think the biggest mistake that or

[00:17:57] The biggest hurt that I've heard from other

[00:17:59] podcasters is that they try to

[00:18:02] You know solicit solicit their friends and family

[00:18:05] To follow and listen to their podcasts and they get really upset because

[00:18:10] They don't

[00:18:11] Your family and friends are not your audience

[00:18:16] I'm sorry to tell you

[00:18:19] They're not I mean sometimes it matches up

[00:18:22] We've been very lucky where like our

[00:18:24] Like my mom listens and watches on youtube jackie sister and brother listened

[00:18:29] So like we do have some family and friends it aligns because

[00:18:34] You know, they listen to podcasts. They they like the show

[00:18:38] But sometimes it doesn't like my youngest sister in the beginning the first seasons

[00:18:42] She was like helping us we called her our producer, but my sister doesn't do podcasts

[00:18:48] She just she doesn't she supports in other ways

[00:18:51] And that's the other thing you have to figure out what other ways people in your life can support you because

[00:18:56] Podcasts might not be their thing and you just got let it go and that's okay

[00:19:01] So if you're building a community from scratch as a brand new podcaster like

[00:19:05] What would be the thing to really focus on would be facebook social media

[00:19:10] YouTube, how do you even begin to grow anything?

[00:19:13] Well, um, I think again if you go back to your friends and family about how they can support

[00:19:18] They can follow

[00:19:20] At least so you're building that following numbers. You can ask something of them give them an assignment

[00:19:26] Like can you share this out like especially when you're first starting you want to share as much as you can

[00:19:33] um, but then

[00:19:35] Going back you have to look at

[00:19:38] How much time and who?

[00:19:40] How much time and effort you're going to be able to have for social?

[00:19:45] I would recommend that you make sure that you claim every single social media platform with your name

[00:19:52] That's like a given because your show name, right?

[00:19:56] Yes

[00:19:56] So first when you're picking your show name before you even start and you make an episode

[00:20:02] Google is free everybody

[00:20:04] Google your name or what you think of and make see what's coming up on google

[00:20:10] And then make sure you go to all the other platforms and see if it's taken anywhere

[00:20:14] Do not do

[00:20:17] Like if we were to do no dot more late fees on twitter and then no more late fees

[00:20:24] Podcasts on instagram

[00:20:26] It goes back to when I was saying that you want to make it easier for your listeners

[00:20:30] So if you can I know it's hard sometimes because things are taken but trying to find a name that you could be able to use

[00:20:37] The same app for every single platform. That's good idea

[00:20:40] That's good. That's really good because when we did chris christine show for some reason

[00:20:44] I think I don't know if some of them were taken or we did I don't know what happened

[00:20:47] But there's multiple different versions across the different platforms

[00:20:51] And I think it's like the worst way to do it and and I'm learning now

[00:20:54] Then I didn't know back then because when I started I knew nothing about any of this stuff

[00:20:58] You know and so

[00:21:00] I guess having having your name be the thing on all the different platforms now

[00:21:04] Should you be on every single one you can or should you just focus on a few?

[00:21:08] Only focus on a few again. You have to look at your time. So I'm just I get I'm trying

[00:21:14] Reiterate that you want to be prepared

[00:21:17] Or if something happens quickly, right?

[00:21:20] So there's nothing like you blow up

[00:21:23] And then you're scrambling because you didn't get your youtube name or you didn't get your facebook name and someone else has taken it

[00:21:30] It's a nightmare. I've seen it happen even with some of my clients

[00:21:33] Yeah, so you want it? That's why you want to think ahead as if you're already going to be big one day, right?

[00:21:40] And then the other thing is to make sure that

[00:21:45] You say okay

[00:21:46] Going back to my target audience

[00:21:49] If my target audience like for the podcast is millennials

[00:21:53] Elder millennials younger millennials

[00:21:56] Then i'm going to go to all the platforms I have available and say where are they

[00:22:01] Where are they hurt? Uh huddled up together, right? Um, I know oh they're on instagram. They're on tiktok

[00:22:10] They're on um twitter

[00:22:12] now tiktok I was surprised about because um

[00:22:16] I just thought when my first thoughts of tiktok was like this is just for kids

[00:22:22] Yeah, I never never thought I was going to make a tiktok and I was so surprised by the community that I was able to find there

[00:22:29] um, there's a big movie community there and

[00:22:34] Tiktok was just like the fastest way

[00:22:37] The fastest platform to grow really quickly. I don't think it's the same now

[00:22:41] Um as it was in 2021 when we did we started

[00:22:46] things have changed with the algorithm and all but

[00:22:49] go where your target audience is but only do

[00:22:55] The platforms that you know, you're going to put the time and effort into

[00:22:58] So right that makes sense. I mean we only have so many hours in the day and we most most of us any

[00:23:04] Podcasts or myself included is that I have a full-time job and then I do this on the side

[00:23:09] So I don't have the resources or manpower to be

[00:23:14] You know on every platform manning everything and doing all the things over and over again

[00:23:19] so

[00:23:20] Once you have your social media is kind of like your core three or whatever it is kind of figure it out

[00:23:26] You're posting there

[00:23:28] What should be you be posting to kind of drive interest to your show?

[00:23:33] well

[00:23:34] The first the first thing you have to do is once you figured out your platforms

[00:23:38] You want to make sure your bio is consistent on every platform that who you are you've gotten it down to

[00:23:46] 120 characters or less like you're able to

[00:23:50] Make sure that that that is there. This is how you're going to be

[00:23:54] potentially

[00:23:56] found right

[00:23:58] Instagram I've seen so many people not put anything. I've seen people put things that have nothing to do with their show

[00:24:04] Again, you want to go back to your target audience?

[00:24:06] You want to go back to what makes you unique and find out what are those key words essentially?

[00:24:11] What are those words that if I was going to search for your podcast?

[00:24:16] The words I would search with

[00:24:18] That should be

[00:24:20] In your bio

[00:24:21] Okay for all the different platforms now

[00:24:23] Should the same thing be in your bio for your podcast itself because you set up a set of podcasts

[00:24:27] Whether it's on bus, brat or wherever you type in the bio of the podcast should that match the same thing on social media

[00:24:33] As much as possible you have a little bit more leeway there to have a little bit more characters and words

[00:24:39] So yes, you want to make sure from an SEO standpoint

[00:24:43] search engine

[00:24:44] optimization standpoint that you're

[00:24:47] Making sure you're telling the algorithms that exist who you are

[00:24:52] so that they will be like because

[00:24:54] People are like the algorithm hates me it doesn't you have not provided it

[00:25:00] With the information needed to to serve it up to someone who's looking so rich with keywords that

[00:25:07] Will drive people to your show now

[00:25:10] The show artwork should it be exactly the same thumbnail for all of your social medias?

[00:25:16] So

[00:25:17] One thing before we go there

[00:25:19] chat gpt

[00:25:21] AI

[00:25:23] I don't think you should use it for like big things but something like your bio telling the ai

[00:25:28] What exactly your podcast is it can help you spit out some

[00:25:34] Some bios to make that part easier if it's hard for you. So that's just a suggestion. Oh, yeah, I love chat gpt by the way

[00:25:42] Secondly for

[00:25:45] Your logo let's start with the logo before we start with the art

[00:25:49] You need three different types of logos

[00:25:52] You need your main logo. You need a logo that can be in black and white

[00:25:57] And your logo might be stacked or it might just be like the full name across

[00:26:02] you probably need a variation because

[00:26:06] When you're putting

[00:26:08] Your logo in for your avatar on different platforms

[00:26:12] It's not if it doesn't show up, right? It's already you're giving like a wonky look

[00:26:19] And I hate to say it people don't even realize that they're judging a book before by its cover situation

[00:26:25] Oh, yeah, you want to look as clean and polished as possible. That's your first impression

[00:26:32] So if you're going to spend any money on anything I would say to try to do it

[00:26:38] With the artwork if you don't have the money to get someone to do it on like fiverr or upwork

[00:26:44] Then I would highly recommend paying for the pro of canva

[00:26:50] It has a like a majority of the work that I've posted has come from me being able to utilize that

[00:26:57] and they have

[00:26:59] All the sizes for every different platform, which is very helpful so that you can make sure that that's all good

[00:27:05] Yeah, especially like with youtube thumbnail

[00:27:07] Like I who knew I didn't know idea that youtube thumbnail thumbnail had to be a certain dimensions and certain pixel sizes

[00:27:13] And stuff I think or just make something and threw it in there and say it's too big. I'm like what?

[00:27:17] And then canva we go into canva. They've got a whole youtube thumbnail section

[00:27:21] Where you can plug and play your own stuff into their templates and it makes it so easy

[00:27:25] I love canva for that kind of stuff. It makes it very easy to do that

[00:27:28] So once you have your artwork all kind of figured out

[00:27:30] I do know like you said they do

[00:27:33] Look at your stuff before they are going to press play or anything

[00:27:37] um, you know, it's not just I mean

[00:27:39] People say they shouldn't read a book by its cover, but everybody really does

[00:27:43] Yeah, I mean we're a lot of people are visual learners and then these platforms are made especially for visual

[00:27:51] You know things to be appealing for your for your your visual senses

[00:27:55] um when you're making your cover now it's really important to look at

[00:28:01] apple especially because apple rules the roost essentially when it comes to

[00:28:07] What potentially that they might pull your podcast to put it on the discovery section or whatever and they have very

[00:28:16] very stringent specific rules

[00:28:20] about

[00:28:22] What your cover should look like like how the sizes of it?

[00:28:27] um, they give you specs like if you really take the time and go

[00:28:31] Read what they have on their website about the specification if you're starting off

[00:28:37] It's really good to try to get it as close to what they're recommending

[00:28:42] Yeah, that's what I would I what first we didn't do any of that stuff

[00:28:44] Like I said we first started the chris christine show we knew nothing about nothing

[00:28:47] So we just threw it all together on our phones like hey on the couch. This looks good

[00:28:51] Okay, great and then kind of the same thing a pot to ask the god at first my old logo which which

[00:28:56] Now looking back at it. I'm like gosh, I think this color scheme was so off like what's I thinking?

[00:29:01] I'll just play on my playing around my phone with it. You know, this looks good and

[00:29:05] The new one's much better. It's probably actually can read the lettering which is even better

[00:29:09] And um, I think that uh does help but what I did hear when it comes to logos

[00:29:14] I don't know if this is true or not

[00:29:15] But you've been in marketing me ask you this is that your podcast artwork works better if there's a face

[00:29:22] In the image is that true

[00:29:25] Um, it can yeah, I mean we don't have one but what was interesting about our logo is that we

[00:29:32] You know

[00:29:33] It looks familiar enough because it brings up the nostalgia of blockbuster because blockbuster was the ticket

[00:29:39] So if you're not going to put your face in it

[00:29:42] Like we just updated our artwork to have uh jackie and I on it

[00:29:46] And we hadn't done that for a while

[00:29:49] Right, right. Yeah, I do think it can help

[00:29:52] But I don't think it's

[00:29:55] I don't think it's the the biggest deal

[00:29:57] I think you just want to make sure that the font is readable a lot of people try to do something cutesy with like the script and stuff

[00:30:04] You have to

[00:30:05] It to imagine that you're in a car and you're driving past

[00:30:09] Let's say your logo was like on the storefront or something and you're driving by

[00:30:13] And you want to make sure that the person driving by pretty quickly can read what your sign says, right?

[00:30:20] Same thing for your your logo and you're for your podcast. You want to make sure that it's

[00:30:25] There's no questions. Was that an i that was an l I can't I don't know what that is. Right, you know, right exactly

[00:30:32] Yeah, definitely. So okay, so

[00:30:35] marketing here so marketing a

[00:30:37] podcast I know it's kind of tricky because

[00:30:40] Typically, you know an audio podcast is an audio format audio media

[00:30:45] But marketing something it's audio on a social media, which is typically a visual platform

[00:30:51] You got to figure some kind of middle ground. How do you figure that out?

[00:30:54] Well, the good thing about youtube is that

[00:30:58] The stats tell us that

[00:31:00] podcast audio podcasts perform pretty well on youtube regardless of the video

[00:31:06] Podcasts that are popping up like there's the audio ones are still outperforming

[00:31:11] So there's still spaces for it

[00:31:14] I think twitter is a great community for indie podcasts and

[00:31:19] The thing about indie podcasters is that they actually listen to podcasts

[00:31:23] So becoming a part of that community and sharing your podcast there. That's an opportunity for new listeners

[00:31:29] I I would say a good amount of even our most

[00:31:33] Rabbit fans are other podcasters. So you just never know there

[00:31:38] now when it comes to tiktok and

[00:31:41] Instagram

[00:31:43] There's so many creative ways that you can take your audio clips and and turn them into

[00:31:50] Video right you can get b-roll on

[00:31:54] Canva if you're doing a movie podcast you can put clips of your movie with your audio with it

[00:32:01] Pictures as long as things things are moving you could do memes

[00:32:05] There's a lot of creative things that you can do

[00:32:08] That doesn't have you just stuck with the audio

[00:32:12] But I would say if you're doing stuff on instagram the carousel is great, right?

[00:32:17] Like every reals everyone's talking about reels and video, but instagram does prioritize

[00:32:23] its

[00:32:25] carousel posts

[00:32:27] So do that as it like you're telling a story you have your cover where you're saying exactly what's happening, right?

[00:32:33] Or you're introducing the piece of content if it's the audio you could start with like a cover photo saying

[00:32:40] Asking a question even right to get them to slide to the next

[00:32:45] The next one and that could be

[00:32:48] That piece of content can be the audio piece of the clip

[00:32:51] And then the last part could be

[00:32:53] Hey for more

[00:32:55] Come and check out our episode whatever

[00:32:59] So you're telling a story using carousels in a way

[00:33:02] That is going to get people to stop for a little bit and they're going through the whole thing

[00:33:07] So for those who don't know what a carousel post is on instagram

[00:33:11] It's basically when you select multiple photos in your photo album that we put on as the photo

[00:33:18] So when they

[00:33:19] When they do come up to that in their posts in their feed

[00:33:22] They scroll to the right and it goes to the next photo you put in there, right?

[00:33:26] Like one two three four how many can you put in there? Is it a limited or a cap on that?

[00:33:30] It's 10 you can do 10. Okay. Now would you suggest doing all 10 or should you keep it to like four or something?

[00:33:36] It just depends on what you're you're doing right now

[00:33:40] There's a trend or there's been a trend for

[00:33:43] For a little bit now a few months

[00:33:45] Where it's a static photo and a video

[00:33:49] And instagram will consider video the audio piece, right because it's gonna be an mp4

[00:33:56] So having the static and then

[00:34:00] You know sliding on to the video part is it's been working well for a lot of people

[00:34:05] So I definitely would test it out

[00:34:08] Very interesting. So speaking of instagram, uh, what is the quickest way?

[00:34:13] Do you think other than just putting carousels and videos out there?

[00:34:16] What's the quickest way to build an audience on instagram specifically?

[00:34:21] Oh, instagram is very very hard. Um, I think

[00:34:26] Real this is how you should look at it

[00:34:30] This is the priority prioritization of

[00:34:34] Instagram from instagram

[00:34:36] stories direct message

[00:34:40] Um reels

[00:34:42] Carousel those are like

[00:34:44] The top four things that you should be paying attention to

[00:34:48] They're very much

[00:34:50] Looking at stories

[00:34:52] So much so that it's it's really again when you when you talk about your target audience

[00:34:57] Sometimes they'll tell you what they want

[00:34:59] So instagram has looked at the stats and realized that people

[00:35:03] Love the stories and that's what they're engaging with

[00:35:06] And after stories people are in direct messages having conversations. They're sharing reels back and forth

[00:35:12] They're having, you know comments there group chats

[00:35:16] And then it goes to reels when you look at a reel I want you to think of I'm making this reel

[00:35:23] And the reel is for me to get more attention from people outside of

[00:35:28] My community or who's following me

[00:35:31] I think it does push at least the algorithm. I think it pushes the reels out to a wider

[00:35:36] broader, you know, um net of people versus your own core people to follow you

[00:35:41] Mm-hmm

[00:35:42] So when you're making a reel you need to think about okay

[00:35:47] I'm catching someone's attention. I want to make sure that this reel aligns with

[00:35:53] My podcast like what I'm offering on the podcast

[00:35:56] You know, if you do a fun meme and it has nothing to do with the content

[00:36:01] You're going to get a bunch of people who come to your page

[00:36:03] And they're not going to resonate with any of the other content

[00:36:07] But if you put something that has to do with your content, they're going to want to go to your page and then they're just

[00:36:13] Liking and watching more videos. They're staying on your page. And that's what you want

[00:36:18] Yeah, I think that they the instagram or whatever platform it is

[00:36:22] tracks the time of use on that particular person's content

[00:36:26] I would think it's kind of interesting how like with stories

[00:36:30] um

[00:36:31] I would thought that reels would be higher priority than stories or are they about equal on par with each other?

[00:36:38] No, it's just in that order. It's stories direct message and then um

[00:36:43] reels

[00:36:45] So they just they just sent out. I think it was yesterday an update and this is another thing

[00:36:51] If you're not following instagram creators page

[00:36:56] You should because they're constantly posting

[00:36:59] Different tips of what you should be doing on your page

[00:37:03] Um directly from instagram, so they posted what changes they're going to be making

[00:37:09] To help creators, especially small creators

[00:37:12] I think one of the biggest things that they're trying to clamp down on

[00:37:15] Are a lot of the meme pages. They want to go they want original content

[00:37:22] And so they're going to start

[00:37:25] Um

[00:37:26] Kind of getting giving demerit to people who are not creating original content essentially

[00:37:33] The memes are the best thing everyone shares memes and makes memes of different things

[00:37:36] And they'll take video from something else and twist it into something completely different

[00:37:40] But it's funny. I love that stuff just last night as I record this episode my absolute favorite

[00:37:46] Instagram page of all time that I actually love

[00:37:49] I just got a note on twitter x saying that instagram closed them down. They had 317 thousand followers

[00:37:56] And they just shut them down because they said a note about copyright

[00:38:00] Saying because they're a meme type of content

[00:38:03] And just shut them down and they were pissed and they're trying to reach out to instagram

[00:38:08] And they couldn't figure out how to get hold of them or what to do or they said they said they said a warning saying that your

[00:38:14] Memes quote-unquote memes content was violating some copyright or something like that

[00:38:18] So it's a very tricky thing to do and on this note is that no matter how big you are

[00:38:23] Instagram can shut you down for you know, it's their world. You're living, you know

[00:38:28] So that's the thing to consider I think and that's why I think it's really important so in

[00:38:34] marketing we have

[00:38:36] Something that's called earned media and owned media

[00:38:40] Now social media is considered owned which means that you're you have

[00:38:46] full

[00:38:47] clearance over it

[00:38:49] but

[00:38:50] I would say the cleanest version of that is email because if you own your email list

[00:38:55] You'll be able to continue to talk to your audience no matter what happens to a social media platform

[00:39:01] So if you're not building an email list and that's on me too. We need to work on that

[00:39:06] You're missing out opportunities

[00:39:09] And if any of these platforms go away, you'll lose all the people that are in your community

[00:39:14] Like everybody on tiktok right now, what don't they're doing? They're probably stressing out

[00:39:18] Well tiktok. There's more legality to that

[00:39:22] So there's supposed to be nine months from the ruling or whatever

[00:39:25] But I do believe that tiktok is going to go to the supreme court and fight this

[00:39:31] There's too much money that they're making in the united states for them to kind of just be like, okay peace out

[00:39:36] So that whole situation may not happen as quickly as people are saying but don't panic

[00:39:43] Just make a contingency plan short try to drive more traffic back to your other social media platforms and again

[00:39:50] Try to drive people to sign up for your newsletter so you can stay in

[00:39:54] Connection this is a great opportunity actually to do that whether or not tiktok goes away

[00:39:58] To grow your email list because people understand that they think that it might you know go away

[00:40:04] Well, it's also a good good point to having an actual audio podcast

[00:40:09] Not just a youtube channel not just instagram not just a tiktok

[00:40:13] If you have an actual rss feed audio podcast

[00:40:17] You own that and if for some reason spotify doesn't like you because you said something

[00:40:23] Okay, you got apple if apple doesn't like you you got something else

[00:40:25] And if none of them like you you can still plug in your rss feed into an app and get it to play that way

[00:40:32] It's tricky. I've never had experience that but

[00:40:35] But it's a little more a little more hands on you got to figure it out

[00:40:38] But still if everybody cancels you you still have the opportunity to still create a podcast and still get it out to the listeners

[00:40:44] Maybe a little trickier to do but they can still get out to you versus youtube can completely close you down

[00:40:50] I remember I was looking up research for an episode a while back

[00:40:53] I was just curious to see how many big youtubers

[00:40:56] Got cancelled and i'm thinking like it doesn't matter how big you are if

[00:41:00] If they don't like you for whatever reason or no reason at all

[00:41:03] It seems like they can just shut you down and and going back to the to the instagram page

[00:41:07] And and I feel back that I love that I love their stuff their stuff was so good

[00:41:10] That I always would reshare in my stories like almost everything they posted

[00:41:14] I would reshare because it it was called san diego humor and they re they rebranded branded with another

[00:41:20] Instagram page how long that's gonna last i don't know

[00:41:22] But but it was always local humor that was like if you lived here, you thought it was funny because you get it

[00:41:28] It's like

[00:41:29] Like oh, yeah, that's funny because I understand that mall or understand that part of town or something like that

[00:41:34] So it makes sense to us who live here

[00:41:36] So it was hilarious, you know and and they were really really popular and um

[00:41:42] You know, I just feel bad that

[00:41:43] That that just kind of just disappeared like that

[00:41:46] But it was so, you know, mostly memes. I mean I think it was all memes for the most part

[00:41:51] And it was all funny stuff, but it's funny you say that about the memes

[00:41:54] They want more original content, but uh, who do they think they are you know?

[00:41:59] They so all of all in all what's really happening is that

[00:42:05] Metta has a tendency that it has in the past

[00:42:09] literally just

[00:42:11] Figured out what a competitor. What made that competitors platform special

[00:42:17] Stole the resources of it and and restructured it to fit into their platforms

[00:42:23] they're really

[00:42:25] Having a hard time because they can't figure out

[00:42:28] TikTok's algorithm. So if tiktok was a podcast and the question I asked of

[00:42:33] What makes you unique?

[00:42:34] What makes you what makes you special? It would be their algorithm that they're able to

[00:42:40] send people

[00:42:42] videos that speak directly to them matching their

[00:42:48] their habits and and

[00:42:50] how they've been using the platform

[00:42:53] And instagram. Well, meta can't figure that out

[00:42:57] I thought they had a pretty good idea with it because I know that well at least on look at youtube for example

[00:43:02] With youtube if you're watching cat videos or one cat video

[00:43:05] What do you see in your in your you know side column? It's all cat video or cat video related stuff

[00:43:10] So they some of these other social medias have something figured out because uh, yeah

[00:43:15] They're great, but it's not like tiktoks. It's so I don't even know how to describe it

[00:43:20] I mean, I've been on all the platforms

[00:43:23] None of them have served me content

[00:43:26] In the way that I feel like I'm just in a silo

[00:43:30] I do not usually see things on my tiktok feed that have no interest to me whatsoever

[00:43:36] Wow, if I'm if I'm on youtube

[00:43:39] Yeah, I'm gonna see the cat videos, but I'm also going to see something about that randomly about fitness

[00:43:44] Because I looked at something maybe once, you know tiktok will know

[00:43:48] Oh, she's not on fitness anymore. We're not showing her that

[00:43:51] But they also know exactly to the second or millisecond how long you looked at a certain post

[00:43:57] And they put that into the equation and figure all that stuff out somebody should just like

[00:44:01] Sell the algorithm

[00:44:04] Well, that's what makes them money. That's why they're like now we're not leaving so it's really interesting, but

[00:44:10] Go ahead

[00:44:11] No, I was gonna ask you because because uh, the reason why I had you on the show in the first place is that um

[00:44:17] You were asking me about

[00:44:19] We were in the twitter x

[00:44:22] Retweeting groups a while back and I did an episode a couple episodes ago about that

[00:44:27] And how we decided to shut it down and leave and you reached out to me asking me like hey, what's up?

[00:44:34] Yeah, so

[00:44:35] I found that

[00:44:36] That whole thing to be interesting because when I first started, you know

[00:44:42] Our podcast I was trying to figure out like what to do next and

[00:44:46] I stumbled upon

[00:44:48] Like groups like people started sending follow fridays and included us and asked us if we want to be in it and we're like, okay

[00:44:56] And it was really interesting. There was a lot of different podcasts that were from a different range

[00:45:01] The only thing we all had in common word that we were podcasts

[00:45:04] Right. Um, and so it started dwindling pretty quickly like a lot of shows didn't make it

[00:45:11] but now the one there's only one that i'm in now and

[00:45:15] It's actually it's gotten so small that is it's very it's very nice

[00:45:19] It feels very community based and so what I would recommend if you are going to join one of these groups is to

[00:45:28] If you're gonna start one of these groups

[00:45:29] And if you're gonna join one of these groups is to be as clear as possible what your intentions are like what you

[00:45:35] The expectations are of the group

[00:45:38] so that

[00:45:39] That will make sure that you're not having like any kind of um issues

[00:45:45] because I I think some people come in and

[00:45:49] They just they're just thinking about themselves. They don't look at it as a community. So I think

[00:45:55] It's important to find

[00:45:58] Other podcasts that you can be in community with it doesn't make sense to just have thousands upon thousands

[00:46:06] thousand podcasts that you're just like

[00:46:09] kind of

[00:46:10] liking every now and again or forcing the like and

[00:46:13] You don't even listen to their podcast. They don't listen to yours. You you're not in community with them

[00:46:18] You're not like if I need something if you need something if we could talk about advice like really find

[00:46:24] podcasts you could be in community with because one of the things that I found that really

[00:46:29] I had a few people that I knew followed us

[00:46:32] They had stopped following and I was like well what happened and they're like

[00:46:36] Well, I came to your podcast because I really liked

[00:46:40] 90s nostalgia

[00:46:42] I really liked what you guys were talking about and it's really hard to see your content because you're retweeting all these other

[00:46:49] podcasts and other

[00:46:51] information that

[00:46:52] I can't find your content. Also

[00:46:55] I'm not interested in this other stuff. I feel like I was getting spammed. That was what once somebody said to us

[00:47:00] No, it's very interesting. I think I heard that too. I'm not directly

[00:47:03] I heard that third party from somebody they said that

[00:47:06] If you do these twitter retweeting groups and you do just retweet other people's stuff

[00:47:10] Your feed is just nonsense of other people's stuff. Yeah, you're not

[00:47:14] So like okay

[00:47:16] Every now and again, I'll have a tweet that does pretty well, you know

[00:47:19] And so then you get a a good group of people

[00:47:23] Who are interested and they want to see what other tweets you have and then they go to your page and they're like

[00:47:28] I don't know what this is and they're out

[00:47:30] So I think there's a better way that we can support

[00:47:34] indie podcasts or each other than just blindly retweeting

[00:47:39] Each the content one thing that I found was that like if you like a tweet

[00:47:44] It will show up on someone's feed because if you look at your your newspaper time for whatever it is your feed

[00:47:52] You will see that there's a tweet. It's not from someone you follow

[00:47:56] But at the top it'll say so and so like this or so and so retweeted this

[00:48:00] So

[00:48:01] Liking is just as good

[00:48:04] Essentially, okay, not as as wide

[00:48:07] As wide as a retweet. I'm not gonna lie about that

[00:48:11] But it's not going to clog up your feed if that's what you want to do

[00:48:16] And I think then saving the retweets for things that

[00:48:20] Really resonate resonate with your content and your brands like where would fall

[00:48:26] Um or if you just like if you do it every now and again, it's not it doesn't feel as spammy

[00:48:30] It feels more organic. It feels it feels authentic, you know

[00:48:35] And that is what people want to see on social media more than anything is authenticity

[00:48:39] Yeah, I believe that too and

[00:48:41] And going back to the retweeting everybody's stuff and people who weren't retweeting

[00:48:46] That's why maybe mad in the first place is that I was putting stuff in there and nobody retweeted my stuff

[00:48:50] But they asked me to retweet their stuff

[00:48:52] I always thought it was kind of like an even thing like I do for you

[00:48:56] You do it for me

[00:48:57] And that's kind of how at least I thought at least the way I thought it was

[00:49:00] Supposed to be when I joined these things in the first place

[00:49:03] And I think early on in the middle of 2020 when there were so many shows on there

[00:49:08] It was like everybody was helping each other

[00:49:10] I was just sharing and re-sharing and sharing and re-sharing as quickly as we could

[00:49:14] Because we all had this idea that we all wanted to grow on social media

[00:49:17] As quickly as we could and this was an easy free way to do it

[00:49:21] And in theory, I mean in theory on paper like I said it sounds like it should work

[00:49:26] I mean everybody should share we should get your audience to follow me

[00:49:29] I should follow you it all should work

[00:49:31] But I think it became some mishmash and then I said some shows weren't doing it at all

[00:49:35] They were just posting their stuff posting random stuff and like what I'm supposed to do with this, you know like

[00:49:40] And I don't I don't think it actually causes anyone to

[00:49:45] See your show so you have 50 people and they're all sharing each

[00:49:49] Each of the 50 people are sharing the 50 pieces of content

[00:49:53] And it's just going in a circle and no one from the outside is really going to be like listening to any of that

[00:50:00] It's not adding any value

[00:50:02] Twitter is

[00:50:03] Wonderful because you can find real-time conversations of people talking about the subject that you want

[00:50:10] So again, if you go back to writing a list of the things that like what do I cover on my podcast?

[00:50:15] What are what are the keywords that people are looking for you can use those same keywords to put it in twitter

[00:50:21] And find people having real-time conversations and jumping in them organically not spammy like check out my podcast because

[00:50:28] You also have to think about

[00:50:30] What does that person really care about?

[00:50:32] You know make it a real conversation

[00:50:35] I think because we're online people feel like

[00:50:38] You could just be spammy but just

[00:50:41] Pretend you're in real life. You would never go up to someone

[00:50:45] And jump into their conversation and say hey check out my podcast

[00:50:49] I who the hell are you get out of here?

[00:50:51] Right, so don't do that online because all that's going to do is you might hit the wrong person

[00:50:56] And next thing you know, you got a one-star review like don't do it

[00:51:00] Right. Yeah, so just try to find your people find people who are talking about the things that you

[00:51:07] are

[00:51:08] Offering as an added value and once you build those conversations and community

[00:51:15] Then they're like, you know what? Yeah, I'm gonna check out that episode

[00:51:17] And if they like it they're gonna come back

[00:51:19] And that's when you you could stand ten toes down on your podcast

[00:51:23] Because you know if you just get them through the door your podcast is going to keep them coming back

[00:51:28] As long as it's good as long as a good show you gotta start with that first

[00:51:32] I think a lot of people miss that part

[00:51:34] You know

[00:51:36] So so I think it's probably wise to probably have some serious like

[00:51:41] Audit of your of your content your show your whole thing

[00:51:45] By somebody not named mom or your brother

[00:51:48] Because they're always going to say it's great, you know, I think it's gotta be it

[00:51:51] You know somebody maybe something may get to pay for this service

[00:51:54] I don't know but because I I started reviewing shows too for a minute and people didn't seem to like that

[00:52:00] Even though it was being very honest and very kind and one show. Oh my god. It was horrible

[00:52:04] And I was like, you know, I'll try to be nice about it in a nice way sing up your it's heart garbage

[00:52:11] But in a nice way

[00:52:13] But they didn't take kindly to it of course because who really would it's their baby and then I realized people don't want reviews

[00:52:19] They don't want to be told it's it's hot garbage. They want to be told it's amazing

[00:52:23] Even if it is hot garbage they want to be told it's amazing

[00:52:26] I think that you can do review exchanges but you have to be

[00:52:31] Honest upfront again setting expectations one

[00:52:36] If you're going to approach someone make sure you listen to their podcast first and see if it's something that aligns with you

[00:52:42] And then also give that other person the opportunity to say like hey

[00:52:47] You know, I really liked your podcast

[00:52:50] Will you check out mine? Do you want to do a review exchange?

[00:52:53] and

[00:52:54] but I want to give you the opportunity to go listen to my podcast and

[00:52:58] Check it out first if you don't feel comfortable like check it out first before you say yes or no

[00:53:04] If they disappear leave them alone

[00:53:06] That's they're out, you know, like it's okay

[00:53:09] And I think it's all right to say to someone

[00:53:13] Oh, I don't do review exchanges

[00:53:16] It is what it is. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I know I got hit up by a guy a couple times, you know and

[00:53:23] They it's all that's all they do

[00:53:24] It's another way people do is to get their reviews on apple's they will just do review exchanges without listening to the show at all

[00:53:31] And they say they do but sometimes they don't they just want to get the

[00:53:34] Review swaps apple won't let you anymore. So I think you I believe you have to actually well

[00:53:40] I mean, maybe they're not listening

[00:53:42] But you have to on spotify it on apple you have to play through before you can write a review

[00:53:48] It won't it won't um

[00:53:50] It won't stick so yeah

[00:53:53] Because I see guys a few things I see guys with like, you know hundreds and hundreds of reviews

[00:53:59] And and because they're asking me for a review swap, but I'm like you just doing it to collect reviews

[00:54:03] That's all you're doing. You know, you're not and I've heard apple themselves say

[00:54:08] Reviews do not help you get found

[00:54:11] in apple

[00:54:12] It's just social proof

[00:54:14] And maybe that's what you need you want social proof to prove

[00:54:17] People actually listen to my show so you should too. Maybe that's why they do it. I don't know

[00:54:23] The funny thing is apple

[00:54:25] Is hilarious because they don't tell you what their algorithm is or what exactly

[00:54:30] They don't tell you what

[00:54:32] You do actually causes you to be

[00:54:35] On the their top chart lists

[00:54:38] They don't tell you how you could potentially now you can fill out a form. There's a form that you can do

[00:54:44] for apple to consider you

[00:54:47] As one of the recommendations

[00:54:50] And you can fill out this form if you're not

[00:54:53] Approved you have to wait like uh, I think it's is it six weeks or

[00:54:58] Yeah, it might be six weeks. I am not a hundred percent on that and then you can try again

[00:55:03] So there is a way to like

[00:55:05] Try to submit it if you can especially if you're having like, you know that you're going to have an anniversary episode

[00:55:11] episode or something special

[00:55:13] They would like for you to submit it with two weeks prior

[00:55:17] Okay, so that you know at least two weeks prior

[00:55:20] Have you had any success with that?

[00:55:23] I haven't yet, but I know other people who have and that goes back to that very sticky situation with the

[00:55:30] your cover

[00:55:32] There's a lot of things they make it hard

[00:55:34] They make it hard for indy podcast to be selected for that to be honest, but we keep trying

[00:55:40] Yeah, you know, it's I think if you're having fun and you're enjoying what you're doing then keep on keep it on

[00:55:46] You know, it's something that I enjoy doing this. I love this whole content. I love the media

[00:55:51] of audio and I love

[00:55:54] You know listening to podcasts love creating podcasts

[00:55:56] Um, you know, I love this kind of stuff, you know, I love it more than the youtube and I watch youtube not as much

[00:56:04] But I just love the audio content because probably because I'm always on the road more than I am in an office setting

[00:56:10] So, uh, it works for me and I know that I've heard that audio itself the audio podcast will outperform

[00:56:17] The video version of the same content 10 to 1

[00:56:21] I don't know if you've seen that or not but because

[00:56:25] podcasts people are doing

[00:56:27] Listening to podcasts where they're doing other things

[00:56:30] When you have video you feel obligated that you have to sit and watch it

[00:56:33] That means especially if your podcast is long ours is a little bit long

[00:56:38] That you now have to dedicate a certain amount of time and you can't really do anything else

[00:56:42] That's the mindset I think so that totally makes sense. Also a lot of people listen to podcasts commuting

[00:56:50] I recommend that if you're a podcast and you've had your podcast for a while and you feel like you're in a rut

[00:56:55] Do a google form and do a survey to the people that you know, listen to the show

[00:57:01] And ask them

[00:57:03] What they like what they don't like what can be improved

[00:57:06] Make it a safe space for them to be able to give that feedback because

[00:57:10] Your whole thought process is that you want to be better. We did that a few months ago. We had an audit

[00:57:16] We had someone else outside and a different

[00:57:20] podcast expert audit our podcast and they gave us a lot of feedback

[00:57:25] We like I said that we're just doing install to content

[00:57:29] One of the things was like hey, we're not showing what's great about the podcast

[00:57:32] Which is the clips of the actual podcast some people don't even know we have a podcast

[00:57:37] So we had to recalibrate that and every video that we create now I have to think about how does this tie back to the

[00:57:45] podcast in an organic way where it's not like look at my podcasts, you know, so I started adding a

[00:57:53] End credit

[00:57:55] At the end of some of our videos so it reiterates that we're a podcast

[00:57:59] That's a good idea. You want to share them to the podcast? So they don't know they don't know

[00:58:02] You know, they think you're just another instagram page or just another whatever, you know, yeah

[00:58:07] Kind of a thing

[00:58:08] So I guess the core is if you if you have the podcast steer them to the podcast

[00:58:12] But don't make it the first don't put on the front door

[00:58:15] You know get him in the door first and then tell me how to podcast

[00:58:19] Yeah, and use your stories. So

[00:58:22] with instagram stories

[00:58:24] You want to look at this as another marketing

[00:58:27] avenue

[00:58:28] And it has to relay back to the podcast in some way do polls

[00:58:35] You know if there's something topical like for example, the scooby-doo movie is

[00:58:40] The scooby netflix is making a scooby-doo tv show, right? That would be a great

[00:58:46] Pop quiz or not a quiz a poll that I could do

[00:58:51] With my audience because I know i'm talking to them about nostalgia. I could say like

[00:58:56] What do you guys think?

[00:58:58] Should netflix do this live action? No, I want to scooby-doo 3

[00:59:03] Uh, I can't wait for you guys to do it on the podcast, you know, throw some things in there

[00:59:06] That's kind of making it fun. But like you have a poll, right?

[00:59:10] um polls do really well

[00:59:13] instagram looks at you using their different

[00:59:18] The different things that they have available

[00:59:21] They look at that they want you to use those things. They want you to ask questions

[00:59:24] They want you to use polls. They want you to

[00:59:27] Do things within the platform and they reward you for it

[00:59:32] You want to look at your stories and see how many views you're getting

[00:59:35] They will send your stories out to people that they haven't sent a reel out in a while

[00:59:41] Really?

[00:59:42] Yes, and if someone

[00:59:45] Consistently comes back to your stories once or twice or three times

[00:59:50] Then when they log into instagram, you were at the top of their stories now

[00:59:55] You're going to be coming up first instead of all the way in the back and that's what you want

[00:59:59] Nice. So you want your stories to be rich fun and engaging you want to mix in content

[01:00:06] That you're sharing don't just share all your reels and then be out you want to engage

[01:00:11] Your audience that's where they are. They are not

[01:00:14] In reels they are not in the post they are in your stories

[01:00:17] They're in your direct messages and you want to start those conversations

[01:00:21] Ask a question post something so that they're I get so many people DMing us asking something because of the stories

[01:00:28] And now we're having conversation and instagram sees that that's incredible. I think having

[01:00:33] Direct community feedback and it's more important than

[01:00:36] Likes or views I would think having comments like how many comments did it get like I posted something on threads the other day

[01:00:43] And I haven't checked it lately, but it blew up

[01:00:45] It like I was trying to keep up with all the comments

[01:00:48] Because it literally blew up and nothing to do with the podcast or like that

[01:00:51] It's just something I saw and I just posted a picture of it and and it just got went crazy

[01:00:55] I think in one day had like a hundred over a hundred comments in one day. That's awesome

[01:01:00] Yeah, and I'm trying to keep up with it all and I'm trying if someone negative

[01:01:03] Some number of cut from pop is it but it was like here. I'm trying to respond to everything

[01:01:07] And I'm trying to keep up with like oh my gosh, it blew me away

[01:01:09] But I think things like that can happen, you know with certain posts and I think posts that you create that can drive

[01:01:17] Community feedback is much better much better than just getting eyeballs

[01:01:22] View count I guess

[01:01:24] Yeah, and if you have a reel and someone commented something fun or you're getting some cool comments

[01:01:29] Take share the share the reel with that comment. You can do that now so that

[01:01:34] There's context to the reel

[01:01:37] With someone commenting and you can write do you agree with britney xll? Whatever

[01:01:42] interesting so

[01:01:44] Yeah, there's just

[01:01:46] Stories man. That's where it's at. Y'all got to start playing with the stories. Don't take it for granted

[01:01:51] Make sure that it's aligning with what your brand is

[01:01:55] You know

[01:01:56] Don't just share whatever because it's fun like you want to make sure that it's keeping them in the mindset of

[01:02:01] What your brand is?

[01:02:03] That's right, daniel. I do appreciate everything you say you you are the marketing expert

[01:02:08] I want to say thank you so much for being on the show today. I really appreciate you spending your time with me today

[01:02:13] Where can everybody find out all about you and all your wonderful stuff?

[01:02:17] um

[01:02:18] You can check out our podcast at no more late fees on every platform

[01:02:22] And we are on apple spotify if you want to listen to the podcast. We're very unhinged talking about

[01:02:28] movies from the late 90s and 2000s

[01:02:31] And um, yeah, and if you have marketing questions or whatever you can direct messages on instagram

[01:02:36] And then I can provide other information if needed

[01:02:40] Wow, that was amazing. I hope you learned some amazing tips and tricks on how to better market your podcast

[01:02:47] Thank you daniel you are the best and if you want to get in touch with her all of her links to all of her stuff

[01:02:54] Is down below in the show notes of this very episode

[01:02:58] Thank you so much for being here. I truly do appreciate you give me your time today

[01:03:03] And if you got any value from this episode, and I know I did can you do us a small favor?

[01:03:10] And share this podcast episode out to your audience

[01:03:14] And if you do tag either one of us in the post

[01:03:18] And we would love to reshare and post it and shout you out when you do and until next time happy podcasting