153 Mastering Podcast Editing: Expert Tips and Tricks with Steve Stewart from Podcast Editors Academy

[00:00:00] as a brand new podcaster, how do you get good at editing your podcast? Perhaps maybe lots of practice or you can swing on by the official podcast editors Academy.

[00:00:18] matters be heard. Welcome to the podcast where you get exclusive behind the scenes tips to make your own show sound truly spectacular. This is

[00:00:29] Podtastic Audio.

[00:00:35] Hey, what's happening? How are you doing today? Thank you so much for being here. I am Chris and yeah, this is Podtastic Audio, the show which I've designed and created to help you. Yeah, you make an amazing podcast of your very own for your audience.

[00:00:56] But hey, you can podcast about whatever you want. However you want to do it. It's your show. You can go ahead and be the captain of your own podcast ship. Sail on sail away however you want to do it. And if you are tuning in to the very last episode to this episode, which is episode number 152, I went over the ways that I create podcasts for others with my very simple editing services.

[00:01:26] On that episode, I break it all down from how I physically schedule the recording session for my clients to how I physically record to how I make sure their audio sounds amazing to what software I use to physically edit the show. And then what I do when it's all said and done send it out to their media host so that everybody can listen to it on their podcast player of choice.

[00:01:51] But speaking of podcast editing, today I'm joined by a fantastic guest. I have Steve Stewart who runs the official Podcast Editors Academy. What? Which creates some of the best podcast editors anywhere in the world. So please enjoy my conversation with the legendary Steve Stewart of Podcast Editors Academy.

[00:02:21] Podcast Editor Academy. Yep, for anybody who wants to learn how to become an editor by trade.

[00:02:26] Now we're talking podcast editing, video editing, YouTube editing, all editing or just specifically with podcasting?

[00:02:32] Well, it's audio or video but specifically for someone who has a show. It could be a YouTube channel but we don't focus on that. So if somebody wants to learn how to edit video, we have tutorials and stuff like that too. But it's really the focus is creating a business that serves a podcaster whether they're doing audio video or both.

[00:02:50] My go to software, the software that I have learned how to use any of this stuff on was Audacity. I hear that you are familiar with that program too.

[00:03:00] Yes, in fact as we're recording right now it's the day after Audacity's 24th birthday. Happy birthday Audacity.

[00:03:06] Nice.

[00:03:07] I was using it shortly after it was released. I didn't realize it was a new program. I was using something else to convert vinyl records onto, you know, using the sound card in a computer and you'd record it that way and Audacity was a way to record it and then it burned it onto a CD so I could DJ with CDs later. You didn't carry as much records around if you did that. So I was using Audacity way back even before podcasting existed.

[00:03:29] Nice. So was Audacity really formed to be like this music maker editor or do you even consider using it for vocal work?

[00:03:39] I don't consider it a music maker. I do consider it can create sounds like tones and things like that but as far as creating music, something like GarageBand is really built for that. But Audacity is an audio editor to its core.

[00:03:54] So you can throw any audio into it. It can record audio as well from outside sources that you port into your computer but it was always an audio editor, audio production machine. It just couldn't help you create the sounds as much as it is just to record it, manipulate it, make it sound better and then export it of course.

[00:04:14] That was one of the first things I found when I first discovered Audacity. I started like throwing samples in there whether it's my voice or music that I found or something. I threw it in there and then I was like, wait a second, I can adjust things, I can fade things, I can move things around and for like one evening I swear I was just playing around with this thing.

[00:04:33] I was like, look at all this cool stuff I can do with it before I even thought about doing a podcast. And I know a lot of podcasters use Audacity to create their show. I do it myself and it's probably quite an easy tool. I think it's easy to learn on and it's free which is always the best selling point of any product really. I find it very powerful, at least now. Have you really tinkered with a lot of the real time effects that Audacity has, the new updates?

[00:05:00] That's the one thing I'm not using it for is real time effects because it does slow everything down. I want this thing to be fast and clean and it's simple just like you said it's very simple, it's very basic. And yes because it's free you know it makes that very attractive but even if it was something to be paid for it's very multi-track editing. You can move stuff around, clip stuff of course it is audio only so you've got that restriction. But then again that's what most podcasts are is audio only and that's really what we use to

[00:05:30] use audio editors to make the product that we put out there.

[00:05:34] So if a company or a person or business or show wants to come to you to have them have you edit their show for them, what are like what are they looking for as far as a finished product?

[00:05:47] Well as far as the client is concerned they just want to hear their podcast in an app and possibly on YouTube. So they've got that goal and however the sausage gets made really doesn't concern them.

[00:06:01] So they just say I want to have this show and a lot of times they come in just thinking they want to have a show like whatever show that they've been listening to themselves.

[00:06:09] The majority of my clients come from a niche kind of community of people who create content around the subject of money.

[00:06:16] They have you know the people around them who do the same thing and it's not going to be an NPR style narration type audio fiction or an audiobook type of thing.

[00:06:27] It's going to be they want to come back and do their quote unquote radio show on the internet, interview people or whatever.

[00:06:34] And the primary reason for them to do the show usually is not to make money but to expand their brand and the reach to their audience.

[00:06:41] And from that extension is where they're going to make their money.

[00:06:44] So how do you take that idea that concept from the client and weave it into a edited podcast?

[00:06:53] We sit down for a good time and we talk about how they want their show to sound and sometimes they give me examples of shows that already exist.

[00:07:00] But for the most part, the format of shows are very similar.

[00:07:04] You have an introduction, you might have some music, you have an interview, you might have a break in the middle, you have your closing at the end with some music as well.

[00:07:12] And I try to enhance it with any of those types of elements that make it sound more than just a chit chat type of program.

[00:07:18] So the music, the transitions, you know some shows need some sound effects here and there.

[00:07:23] We try not to be corny but sometimes you know you throw on a little sound effect just it wakes the listener up again.

[00:07:30] Sometimes people are just listening in the background and then you put in a ding or something.

[00:07:33] Yeah it gets their attention.

[00:07:35] So once we have that conversation about how they want their show to sound, then we put it together obviously the way they want it.

[00:07:41] But it's usually a very simple format.

[00:07:42] And then if we come up with ideas in the midst of production, it could be a dozen or 10 dozen episodes down the road.

[00:07:49] Then we can manipulate it and change it a little bit and make it a little more engaging for a listener.

[00:07:55] Right because I do a little editing myself on the side and pretty much give me the freedom to do whatever I want with their show.

[00:08:02] I mean they trust me to take care of it and not really kind of screw it up.

[00:08:05] And I always edit things in the best interest of the show and the flow of the show.

[00:08:10] And make sure they sound the absolute best they can and that they don't sound dumb I guess really you know that kind of thing.

[00:08:17] So when it comes to like editing out parts or sections and things of that sort,

[00:08:22] I always kind of wonder if a client of yours gave you audio and you know you listened to it and you said that thing they said doesn't sound like it makes sense to the style of the show or at least the episode of the show.

[00:08:33] And you accidentally cut it out because you think you don't need it and they come back to you say why did you cut that out?

[00:08:37] Does that ever happen?

[00:08:39] Only once or twice has it ever happened where I had to put something back in where it was an inside joke or most of the time I'm not cutting out content.

[00:08:47] That's what we're talking about here is content.

[00:08:48] Right.

[00:08:48] Most of the time I'm enhancing the audio sound clean up and then of course editing out all the obstructions of what I call the crap.

[00:08:56] Crutches repeats accidents and pregnant pauses.

[00:08:58] Those are the things that I'm really focused on doing for my client.

[00:09:02] Now if it comes to a decision on what stays in or comes out then I can have a conversation with my client.

[00:09:07] That's really there's the three types of editing if you're looking at that type of service.

[00:09:13] You've got the people I'm going to call them the fiber editors.

[00:09:16] You're hired to do a job.

[00:09:18] You're pretty much just doing that task.

[00:09:20] You're not going to go above and beyond to do coaching or get feedback or even suggest hey this would make it better.

[00:09:25] Although some fiber editors do so I don't want to besmirch a fiber editor.

[00:09:30] Then you've got the people who are like me who we kind of know what they want and that's good especially since I work with this niche of people I kind of know what their goals are and what their methods are and I have a sense for who they are because I am I was one of them.

[00:09:44] But then you've got the people who are the content editors which I bow down in front of them because now they're taking more of a producer role or even a manager role.

[00:09:53] They're making content decisions on what goes what stays and I'm not doing that.

[00:09:59] That's what my clients don't they don't pay me for that type of editing.

[00:10:02] Although again if we do come up with something saying hey that was kind of weird a little bit you know somebody could take that the wrong way or I think they misspoke.

[00:10:10] They said they don't do that but they do do that.

[00:10:13] But I don't necessarily listen close enough or know that the guests that they're speaking to enough to be able to make those judgment decisions without reflecting an opinion from them first.

[00:10:25] Right that's the same thing with me is that like I don't I don't know all the acronyms or what they're talking about that much so it's like is that supposed to be a yes or no?

[00:10:35] I don't know so a lot of that stuff yeah I kind of just leave in but the obvious stuff is like if they misstepped a word like 15 times in a row and stuttered it.

[00:10:46] I try to chop the other ones out and leave the good one and kind of so it sounds very natural.

[00:10:50] So I basically edit to make sure the show sounds natural as if it wasn't ever edited at all.

[00:10:58] Oh absolutely I mean I think 99.9 percent of time here's the sign of a good editor.

[00:11:03] You never knew they were there.

[00:11:05] If you're listening to an edited podcast and you never knew it was edited then whoever did the editing did a fantastic job.

[00:11:12] That's the key is to make it sound like it's natural of course there's exceptions to rule narrated shows that's of course.

[00:11:21] Yeah or if you're doing video clips you know obviously you can do a one minute snippet and have that with all the jump cuts and really quick.

[00:11:29] But then if you're having an hour-long conversation having jump cuts every two seconds is just really annoying so that doesn't work.

[00:11:35] But when you're talking about a regular podcast episode conversation leaving the breasts there don't make them don't leave them really loud.

[00:11:43] If someone's you know breathing really heavy with the mic yeah turn those you know dampen those down take the amplification those breasts down a bit amplify the volume of their voice more.

[00:11:53] Make it level with the with the host.

[00:11:56] That's the thing I've noticed with a lot of shows in the early days I saw that or I listened to shows where one person would be like on a volume seven the other person would be like a volume three.

[00:12:07] And you're like going back and forth with the knob and trying to figure this out and I'm thinking like gosh can't you guys like balance that stuff out.

[00:12:13] I mean it sounds like simple stuff but for somebody coming into podcasting for the first time they may not know any of that stuff.

[00:12:21] That was my episode three back in 2010 it was so mismatched it was horrible and I think I might have taken that one down because it just was that bad and really didn't make sense to leave it up anyway.

[00:12:32] So if you are a new podcaster coming in and you're going to obviously try to edit your own show and use Audacity because it's free what are some basic simple tips that you can give somebody that's brand new to figure out how to use this stuff.

[00:12:45] I mean let's make something decent.

[00:12:47] Yeah well first of all I'm not picking Audacity because it's free because there's an excellent excellent editor out there for 12 bucks a month.

[00:12:54] It's called the script and you can edit text like a Word document amazing and has all these built-in features but Audacity is a lot simpler and you don't have to worry about internet connections you don't have to worry about lag all this stuff.

[00:13:08] So some of the tricks that I use that you've got one of the there's two things you want when you're editing you want to do it better or you want to do it faster.

[00:13:16] As a podcast editor I need to be doing both as someone who's starting out you really need to kind of focus on one or the other to get get used to it.

[00:13:24] A couple of shortcuts you can use to edit faster is create your own keyboard shortcuts there are already defaults inside of Audacity.

[00:13:32] If you want to create a keyboard shortcut for like for me I use Amplify a lot so I'll hit A for Amplify now I don't think the default for Amplify is the letter A on the keyboard but I changed it to be that for me because I'm using my left hand.

[00:13:46] As much as I can for keyboard shortcuts so my right hand never leaves the mouse because that will slow you down.

[00:13:52] Nice!

[00:13:53] Yeah if you're looking at your keyboard for a letter on the right hand side of your keyboard you're taking your eyes off the screen and these seconds add up.

[00:14:02] So keyboard shortcuts everything to your left on the keyboard with your left hand is great and then your mouse is still on your right and I even have a here's another hot take I guess you call it.

[00:14:12] I've got one of those gaming mice gaming mouse.

[00:14:15] Those have like multiple buttons on them or something right?

[00:14:18] I think I got two.

[00:14:18] It's got 12 numbers on the left hand side where your thumb goes usually so if you know after a little bit you train yourself to remember the number one's here the number three is here the number seven's there the number's you know 12 is there whatever.

[00:14:30] You can actually program those keys to be keyboard shortcuts as well not just Audacity there's a lot of different DAWs that you can do it with.

[00:14:37] Of course yeah and how much time do you think you save versus the old-fashioned way?

[00:14:41] Every okay so keyboard shortcuts have definitely sped up my production by 10 15 percent easy but every time I come up with a new keyboard shortcut that I start to implement and get good it at least improves my efficiency by 1 percent.

[00:14:53] Look at that I mean if you're doing I mean time is money when I look at it too because I'm very busy we're all very busy people and it makes sense that any time you can like get something done quicker and that's kind of why I also think about maybe upgrading my computer here because I know that like I like to use a lot of those real-time effects.

[00:15:10] But if I've got like five different audio tracks with five or six different effects on each track it could take up to like seven minutes to render a white wave file.

[00:15:21] Yeah and the rendering is fine if you get it all done at the end it's slowing me down at the beginning or during it really drives me nuts because when I bring it into Audacity I want to edit I don't want to condition the audio I don't have to do audio cleanup unless something comes up you know the dog barks or I've got clients in New York and guess what there's always this iron going by in New York.

[00:15:39] So there might be something I have to do somewhere in the middle but I want to do all that audio conditioning at the beginning so I'll do things like noise reduction Audacity's noise reduction is just it's still like one of the best I've seen out there.

[00:15:51] Really?

[00:15:52] It's fantastic yeah I really just if there's somebody's got their fan on air conditioning the heat's going whatever or even I've had it before where you could hear the laundry machine going in the background set low level you know noise reduction is fantastic it's not perfect.

[00:16:08] But come on it's built into Audacity it's been working fantastic for me so I'll do that first just to get some of that that constant noise out then I'll throw it into something like an isotope RX which is really expensive software but totally worth it for like mouth de clicks those drive me crazy.

[00:16:23] Yeah.

[00:16:24] Breath sounds, de-essing and if I can condition a recording like that first then I can bring those tracks into Audacity as a multi-track session and edit to my heart's delight which I love doing anyway.

[00:16:36] That's kind of the way I do it too now the question I have is that you know if you're editing stuff for clients and with whatever gear they've got who knows what they're using have you ever gotten anybody come in and say hey fix this audio and it sounds absolute worst you ever heard in your life.

[00:16:53] Always.

[00:16:54] Oh really.

[00:16:56] Yeah.

[00:16:57] Not a microphone just recorded on a cell phone or something.

[00:17:00] Well OK so I did have that once and I'm going to name the person because I'm really mad at the person who knows the person but I had a client who really loved Gary Vee and went to a Gary Vee show and got permission to interview Gary Vee for like 15 minutes.

[00:17:15] You know he had a meet and greet in the backstage or whatever and yeah I'll be and got together and scheduled it with his assistant and then the day came and Gary canceled fine I get that Gary Vee is a very popular and busy guy and this is like.

[00:17:29] I don't know if 2016 or 17 he was still big back then so they reschedule Gary shows up and I'm guessing because I couldn't see it but my client sends me this recording is like I got 15 minutes this is all I got.

[00:17:42] Can you make this good.

[00:17:44] It was I swear it was Gary Vee downtown New York so you got the taxi cabs and everything running by and it sounds like he's not wearing headphones and he's talking on a speakerphone.

[00:17:53] Oh wow.

[00:17:54] The crap it was like you showed up to an interview you couldn't even put it up to your ear and speak into the mouthpiece you know because there was feedback coming back from my guests every time you talk about this Gary was talking and that's that's a sure sign that somebody's not wearing headphones if when two people are talking at the same time and the.

[00:18:10] The audio goes really like that real quick somebody's not wearing headphones it's almost always the case and this is happening all the time in this Gary Vee interview.

[00:18:19] And it was the most horrendous audio and I did everything I could nowadays we've got some tools that kind of rebuild the audio from scratch and does a really good job it still doesn't quite sound like the guest should sound if it's really bad audio like guys in New York City with a speakerphone on right.

[00:18:37] You know you've got Adobe enhance I think it's just Adobe podcast and I use that one I have that one and when that one clients come in with earbuds or the headset or something like that.

[00:18:48] It does a really good job of removing a lot of that boomy kind of echo sound but I think if you go 100% it does sound a little more filtered.

[00:18:55] Yep, so we've got the scripts got studio sound so if you're using the script it's got something built in there again it's not perfect.

[00:19:02] There's a Mac app called hush that I use it's a one time purchase was just wonderful because then I'm not worried about internet connection so much as I'm.

[00:19:08] Worrying about to pick that one up.

[00:19:10] Yeah it's like well it might be like 80 bucks now or something it's not bad for a one time purchase totally worth it doesn't do as good as Adobe enhanced but then you don't have the restrictions of time and stuff like that but if you've already got an Adobe prescription then it's included anyway from what I understand.

[00:19:24] There's other ones out there too in fact I think now I think did I just read that Riverside now has some kind of AI generating voice cleanup tool.

[00:19:32] They have something that looks like the script I saw their YouTube or something it looked like a descriptive version where you text.

[00:19:40] Now they have text based editing.

[00:19:42] I think you have most have to assume that the audio is good in the first place if you do text based editing.

[00:19:49] Well again if you're if you're piling the studio sound and the script on top of that stuff that takes care of the audio problem.

[00:19:55] The not the problem but it helps with the audio the sound efficiency shall we call it.

[00:20:02] Right right well if you know what you're doing I had a descriptive account for a little while I basically cancel them because I think what happened I wasn't using it as much and then I found the Adobe version of podcast enhanced and that was literally the only reason I was even having the

[00:20:16] descriptive account was to throw my clients audio in there so I can kind of fix that you know not using a microphone.

[00:20:22] It took a while to get microphones and actually just bottom one I bought them a Q2U as a gift I sent it to their office.

[00:20:29] This is for me to you.

[00:20:31] I mean I'll make the money back because you guys pay me to edit your show so it's no big deal to me but and it's a tax write off so whatever.

[00:20:38] But just that took their show from like a two to a ten overnight.

[00:20:43] Yeah and that's all it really takes is getting a simple microphone at least kind of know how to use it.

[00:20:48] I mean microphone like that can sound amazing especially I mean you get it recorded and then you run it through some of these you know some of these things we talked about not not heavily overdoing it but just a little bit.

[00:20:59] It could almost sound like any other microphone out there.

[00:21:02] Yeah yeah I would use the ATR 2100 for a long time the Samsung Q2U is like that.

[00:21:07] Fantastic just plug it USB in your computer.

[00:21:09] I mean how you can't get much simpler than that and it did sound great if you had a good environment for it.

[00:21:15] I'm sure you've talked about this new show before it starts with a good environment.

[00:21:17] You've got to have a good environment to record in right now.

[00:21:20] I don't know if you're hearing the reverb in my room or getting ready to move and take but everything's taken out of my room so I don't have anything on the walls to keep the sound from bouncing around.

[00:21:30] And that's that's causing reverb which of course is going to make it harder to edit because you can't make a clean cut when there's an echo going on in the background you know I mean.

[00:21:37] So the clean sound is the start and everything after that whether you use descriptor audacity is going to be a lot easier because you're able to make those cuts without having to worry about.

[00:21:49] Room tone dropping and you know that with the reverb and things like that clean sounds just is king when you start then you're using clean feed to record this which is an excellent recording device for just audio over the Internet.

[00:22:04] It is and I've always loved clean feed for the audio clarity and I've talked to the guys a few times the creators of clean feed and the way they describe it is basically that it takes your audio file and it puts it exactly back the way you put it into the computer.

[00:22:18] So is it exact replicated audio file that goes into your microphone.

[00:22:24] It's exactly the same thing I hear on my end and it gets taped.

[00:22:26] It doesn't get compressed like with other products like Zoom does and things like that.

[00:22:33] Do you do do you handle a lot of clients that use Zoom for their stuff or they use higher quality stuff?

[00:22:39] I think I have like two left.

[00:22:40] I keep getting people to move away from it but there's a couple that are stuck with it just because it's not them so much it's their guests.

[00:22:48] They have the type of guests who using something like Riverside or Squadcast just seems to be too technically difficult.

[00:22:56] Yeah it is simple it is simple but is there anything is there another way to get a guest recording that's even simpler than you Zoom?

[00:23:04] Simpler than Zoom?

[00:23:05] Yeah.

[00:23:07] Well I think the complexity comes in with trying to connect with somebody over the Internet.

[00:23:10] You've got to click the right buttons get the right link and show up at the right time.

[00:23:14] So that all comes in with the complexity of having a virtual recording.

[00:23:20] It has nothing to do with the tech that you actually end up using.

[00:23:22] It's getting to that tech first of all.

[00:23:25] And then of course if you're setting up your microphone right because we were having a problem with my browser and you and I just before we started and I jumped to a different browser and oh seems to be working now which is fantastic.

[00:23:35] Why should I be having a tech issue when I've been doing this for over 14 years?

[00:23:41] So it's the complexity of getting there once once the recording is going as long as the Internet is strong and still going.

[00:23:49] It really shouldn't matter but those people who just can't seem to get to and the way I said that sounds horrible.

[00:23:55] The people who can't get to that level of I don't know technical knowledge doesn't make any sense.

[00:24:00] Just whatever that Zoom everybody was forced to use Zoom they were taught how to use Zoom in 2020.

[00:24:06] They were forced into learning how to do this.

[00:24:08] Otherwise a lot of people still might not be doing interviews over the Internet because they didn't know how to use the tech.

[00:24:13] Would Skype still be a thing?

[00:24:14] Or is it still there?

[00:24:15] No.

[00:24:16] Skype I think died 2018.

[00:24:19] I don't think too many people are using it after 2020 for sure.

[00:24:21] One thing about Skype I remember is that you have to have an account.

[00:24:24] So both people have to have an account in Skype right to get to work.

[00:24:26] Like I don't want to have an...

[00:24:27] You know one time I had an interview I was interviewing on a show and I knew nothing about Discord at all.

[00:24:32] I thought that was for the game or for the kids right.

[00:24:34] And I don't even mess with that.

[00:24:35] So the guy sends me the Discord something or other Discord and he says did you already log in to Discord?

[00:24:40] It was like months before the interview and I'm like no the interview is until next month.

[00:24:43] Why would I log into it?

[00:24:45] And so the day I go to log in the thing and it says I had to get an account and set up and what's my account?

[00:24:49] I'm like what is all this nonsense?

[00:24:51] I just want to click a link and show up.

[00:24:54] That's all I want to do.

[00:24:55] You know I don't do extra work and I can see where something like Zoom I mean I know a lot of platforms even Riverside I think make it extremely easy for someone to just click a link.

[00:25:04] And just show up and that makes it so much easier.

[00:25:07] And there's so many different ways to do it now you got StreamYard, you got Riverside, you got SquadCast and I don't know maybe these other ones I don't know about.

[00:25:15] I don't know but I think also you probably have to know some of the basics of your own equipment before you even kind of get into any of those kind of things.

[00:25:24] But some people don't know that and they just come on an iPad with no headphones.

[00:25:29] Right.

[00:25:30] You know and that's the education piece that we have to do as podcasters before they ever connect with us whether we're doing a pre-interview or getting online.

[00:25:38] But do you think that if a podcast host is interviewing a celebrity, let's just call him a celebrity, does that leery V?

[00:25:48] Yeah exactly.

[00:25:49] Is it okay though for them to let I mean no one that wrote it's never okay to have bad audio but do you let this much of slide if it's if it's a celebrity?

[00:25:56] Well look content is king.

[00:25:58] So if you're getting the content then it doesn't you know you're going to use whatever you can get.

[00:26:03] If you've got 15 minutes with the president of the United States, you're not going to turn them down because he's not wearing headphones.

[00:26:08] You're going to show up and you're going to get the audio as many different ways as you can because you want to have that back up and you don't want to miss it.

[00:26:17] Whether he's on his or she could be she whether they have their headphones on or talking through their speakerphone like Gary Vee.

[00:26:24] It doesn't matter.

[00:26:24] You're trying to get the content.

[00:26:25] You're talking with the president of the states.

[00:26:27] People are going to tune into your show because you talk to the United States president for 15 minutes.

[00:26:32] So is there ever a time?

[00:26:33] Yes absolutely.

[00:26:34] I mean this is like I told you my client got the 15 minutes he wanted.

[00:26:37] It wasn't the greatest audio quality.

[00:26:39] In fact it was horrible but we still released it because it was Gary Vee.

[00:26:43] Got you.

[00:26:43] Got you.

[00:26:44] Now did he send you an mp3 or a wav file when he got that?

[00:26:48] Oh gosh Chris I'm sorry I don't remember it was 2016.

[00:26:51] Okay.

[00:26:52] Okay.

[00:26:52] It was so long ago.

[00:26:53] Well okay.

[00:26:54] So if a client sends you a file and it is only an mp3 file and it's only a mixed mono mp3 file of a conversation what do you do with that?

[00:27:01] Are you talking about all the speakers on the same track?

[00:27:04] Correct.

[00:27:04] And it's only it's only an mp3 file.

[00:27:06] What do you do?

[00:27:07] I yell at them first.

[00:27:08] No kidding.

[00:27:10] Because really I don't I can't think of anything right now that that records only single track like all the voices on the same track unless you're in the same room and you're recording on the same

[00:27:21] device because then it really doesn't matter.

[00:27:23] You've got two mics that next to each other there's going to be Mike Bleed anyway you're going to hear one person's voice in the other microphone regardless but over the internet there is no there's no reason for that so you should have separate tracks.

[00:27:33] So Zoom, Squadcast, Riverside, I mean Squadcast and Riverside the default is everybody's on their own track that there's no way to turn that off.

[00:27:40] Zoom there is so you don't want the default you want to split those in separate tracks but if I get one of those obviously something happens something happened where they change computers they rebooted they reformatted the drive or whatever.

[00:27:51] And they send the information out of set it up for the next time but we have the recording we have to use it unless they really think it was a bad recording then why are they sending it to me anyway.

[00:28:00] That recording is going to be used so we do the best we can although now I haven't tried this yet but I heard about this it was late 2023 or early 2024 or Hindenburg will now separate you've got all the voices in the same track it will separate those into separate tracks now.

[00:28:20] No way.

[00:28:21] Yeah I haven't seen an action I should play with it because it sounds really incredible I don't know exactly what that means and how that works.

[00:28:27] Do you think it's AI sometimes like AI hears one voice and then puts it over here.

[00:28:32] Yeah because now you can you can because like when I drop my finished mp3 track which is obviously everybody in one track into some of these AI stuff it'll it'll tell you speaker A speaker B and it knows the difference and it does a transcript based on that.

[00:28:46] So it must be something like that I wonder but like you said earlier I wonder if these is there even a need for that because most of us get our tracks separated but there could be somebody who doesn't know like on zoom or something doesn't know how to do that or switch the sweat settings for that.

[00:28:59] So they just record everything in a single track I'm sure it happens a lot.

[00:29:03] And that's where we have to go back to a good editor is going to provide that coaching to their clients to make it easier on everyone to have a better product in the end.

[00:29:13] So if they're recording single track or everything's on the same track and I have to use Hindenburg to split them up at that point do I have to use Hindenburg to split it up just because I want split tracks for some reason.

[00:29:23] Maybe if there's a lot of crosstalk then yes maybe I want to do some you know shifting around of the people speaking over each other a little bit so you can understand them a little bit better.

[00:29:33] But I wouldn't go that far anymore I mean they've already given me the recording it's all baked together so we're gonna do the best we can to make it a good recording and it shouldn't really be a lot of chit chat that's talking over each other.

[00:29:46] Unless it's more of like a humorous comedy type of show.

[00:29:51] I don't know if I explained that very well but.

[00:29:53] Like a hobby type show really you know like like I always think of podcasting falling like two camps I figure like the business podcast that's serious and then they got the funny like we're going to beers and bros in the basement kind of stream.

[00:30:06] Here's the frozen the person are you talk over each other and it's because I it's a humorous entertainment type of a show where it doesn't really matter that we're not just communicating information here we're just having a good time and that's why I call it comedic or comedian.

[00:30:20] That would have been the wrong word then so the bro podcast yes.

[00:30:24] So Steve based on that note what is your best opinion what do you think makes an overall good podcast versus a bad one.

[00:30:32] That's a horrible question man.

[00:30:34] It's what I like right but then I don't like the shows that other people like I really don't care for.

[00:30:41] My shouldn't say it I haven't really listened to Joe Rogan I just haven't had the need.

[00:30:45] But it's the number one most listen to podcast now that it's on you know apple podcasts and all the other places again it's a podcast again.

[00:30:52] So it's the number one podcast I don't really listen to it one there might be a good interview there, but I just can't see sitting for three hours and two he really.

[00:31:01] Releases them what like three days a week or something like that I don't know it's really schedule I tried listening to some of one of them just just to see what the you know fan fair is all about really kind of thing and.

[00:31:11] I remember it was funny in one point of the episode his guests has something like oh you're gonna edit this part out he says F no I don't do any editing on this.

[00:31:21] Yeah that's true they don't.

[00:31:23] But yeah but you know he's the most popular podcast out there so obviously it's good content to a lot of people so what's what makes for a good podcast it's got to be good content that connects with the listener.

[00:31:33] 100% yeah I agree with that I mean that's come for something I think good content kind of like make some press play and a good host keeps him make some stay.

[00:31:42] I guess I guess I don't know.

[00:31:44] But one thing I would think that would would help anybody who's trying to grow an audience is talk to your listener.

[00:31:50] And you notice I said listener and that listeners yes pretend like your listeners right there next to you and you're having a conversation with your guest for the benefit of your listener who's sitting next to you.

[00:32:00] And when you're doing your introduction your outro you're talking to that one person, even though it's hundreds or thousands of people think about that person that you're talking to you're talking right to them and that translates into a more intimate relationship with the listener.

[00:32:14] Especially with audio I mean well I mean I wonder if that also plays out to video too.

[00:32:20] Good thing video we might see things differently project differently we're on video versus audio only so when you when your thoughts on video with podcasting.

[00:32:31] Yeah let's go back to the eye contact and video is almost paramount to making a better connection I have a client who she's been recording with the same co-host they do every other episode they do a Q&A.

[00:32:45] For listeners of her show and then she has somebody come on to do this it's more it's really dynamic that way.

[00:32:51] She's doing video now and she's looking at him on your screen.

[00:32:55] But talking to the listener that they're answering the question to and it just doesn't connect but then when she looks the camera it's like oh.

[00:33:02] she's looking at me, this is the time to pay attention so eye contact in video is way more important than.

[00:33:10] Well, not more important, but it is very important if you're trying to make a connection with your listener power with audio.

[00:33:16] You can be looking at your script on your screen you know or keep you looking out the window as you're talking about whatever but talking to your listener.

[00:33:24] You know I haven't worry about eye contact, but you can make that intimate connection because audio is right there in your head it's it's the closest thing your brain, you can get.

[00:33:33] yeah to to a listener so you're really intimate with somebody by getting into their ears.

[00:33:38] I know the thing is with everyone seems to be pushing this whole video thing like a video video everything's video, but I just thought of a while ago it mentions on a show a while ago was thinking that.

[00:33:50] If you're going to exclusively do video like you're going to be i'm going all in on video only kind of thing.

[00:33:56] And you think about all the other things out there that we can watch as people.

[00:34:01] Netflix TV movies, whatever I think now you're playing in direct competition with the time and take the time you have available to you can either watch netflix or you can watch you on your YouTube channel.

[00:34:14] So I think that's a tough sell but I mean I know there are shows out there they've got millions and millions of views you know every episode and they're doing well, I guess that's also is probably.

[00:34:24] Netflix I don't think they release their numbers but i'm sure Netflix movies and TV shows by do just as good if not better I think it's hard to try to say i'm going to go video only and be successful.

[00:34:37] Agreed video only is hard if you're trying to do a recurring type of show, whereas if you just do YouTube channel and it wasn't really like a podcast.

[00:34:47] And I know we can define what a podcast is later if you want but i'm not going to go through that right now is with a video channel, you can just release things when you have it available when it's ready one of my favorite things to watch is mark rober.

[00:34:59] he's the guy that did the the backyard obstacle course for squirrels it's hilarious and he's funny and he puts this video together and they are fantastic.

[00:35:09] And they take weeks to record and i'm sure there's hours and hours of video to put together into this one show that he done he then kind of narrates you know when you when you actually find the final product.

[00:35:19] That you cannot do it every week and with a podcast in the traditional sense and I even think today it's still as impactful is when you come back and you're providing content that people enjoy every single i'm gonna say every week it doesn't have to be every week but that's what a lot of podcasts are is a release every week.

[00:35:38] The host starts to build that trust with the listener.

[00:35:42] And over time.

[00:35:45] That becomes a really good relationship, even though you may have never met each other, but if you've got something to promote something to sell.

[00:35:51] Something you know you're on a mission as a whole, you know the podcast or as the podcast you've got a mission or a product and.

[00:35:57] That person who's been listening to you for a year or two is more likely to quote unquote buy what you're selling i've got a friend who has been podcasting since 2000.

[00:36:06] I think it was six I probably started listening 2007 and he just released a book well you know.

[00:36:12] I had to go out by the book and a lot of people have been listening to show went out and bought the book why because it's Brian Preston is it because it's a really good book probably but you don't know until you bought it right and read it.

[00:36:24] But he's been delivering value through his show for free for over a decade almost two decades.

[00:36:31] Wow.

[00:36:32] he's got that no like truck trust factor down pat so and plus he's getting clients from the show which he he wasn't even offering that for like the first decade, it was just.

[00:36:41] Free content helping people on the Internet, which is what a lot of us podcasters strive to do we just want to help people right well there's got to be a payback in the long run, he was never really going for that but then eventually when he and he's got a coast with him.

[00:36:53] Now it's probably about seven or eight years ago they're probably like you know what we're open for business if you guys want to work with us and the floodgates open I mean it was like oh yeah we didn't know you're open for business we didn't know you're taking on new clients like how did you not know well you never asked so.

[00:37:07] Yeah, I helped him immensely with his business.

[00:37:10] yeah that's a that's a beauty of a podcasting I love the format the audio format, but.

[00:37:16] I also kind of think that because i'm a very busy person and always on the go and i'm always in the vehicle and i'm always listening to things I think for me.

[00:37:25] I think the audio podcasting made sense and I had no idea until 2020 that this whole video style podcasting was even a thing I thought YouTube was for goofy fall down the stairs in your skateboard videos.

[00:37:40] No, no, no, they were for plumbing videos.

[00:37:43] How to fix your wipers on your car.

[00:37:44] Yes, yes I watched I'd subscribe you know I subscribe to a lot of like car I was in that sports car it's not a lot of sports car videos and videos about my car and how to fix things on my car.

[00:37:55] And things that so like how to videos yeah you're right where the kind of things that I would watch on YouTube and then.

[00:38:01] You know my kids are into those goofy like Mr beast and all those other kind of videos and.

[00:38:06] And those are mega videos, but as far as like the talking head like YouTube like talking had like us the zoom chat video style podcasting I never knew it was even a thing when I first saw it i'm like.

[00:38:19] i'm not even interested in that why would I thought why would anybody watch that like it doesn't seem interesting to me you're not doing anything.

[00:38:26] But if the contents good, and this is what their method of consuming content is then it's going to work for them I poop on video a lot and I shouldn't because I do think I do believe that having a presence on YouTube is going to help you grow your audience.

[00:38:43] I don't think it's going to give you the audience size that you want not for the cost that it's going to take to get there it's going to cost at least four to five times to produce the video not including the cost of gear and your time and all that stuff trying to get it all to happen.

[00:38:58] And the impact is not going to be you know for X your audience of audio it's I have not seen that with my clients were doing a lot more on video now.

[00:39:08] So you're you're let's say you've got I don't know we'll just use a big wrong number hundred thousand dollars thousand dollars excuse me hundred thousand listeners.

[00:39:17] And then you go video OK maybe you increase that audience by what 5% 10% because you put it on YouTube they would have never found you if you're never on YouTube so you got to think of that.

[00:39:30] But now they're spending five X what they were spending on production to get that extra 10% does that make sense.

[00:39:37] Those no ROI.

[00:39:38] Well.

[00:39:41] Here we can go on the finance side of my of my background there's there's a compounding effect and if you look at YouTube a decade ago versus YouTube today.

[00:39:52] Huge difference huge difference everybody's on YouTube because there's no barrier to entry same with podcasting.

[00:40:00] But now I mean you get your product on YouTube and that's what everybody's watching everybody's watching YouTube videos.

[00:40:05] Even podcasters who say I you know a video is not a video podcast they're watching YouTube to it may not be a video podcast but they're watching YouTube right that's the platform people are going to.

[00:40:17] So we can't say that YouTube is bad for podcasting although there is some problems there and I'll argue that too I'll say there's problems here.

[00:40:29] You tube you know people call on their shows a podcast it's only on YouTube nope it's only on YouTube it's not podcast it's not possible to be a podcast if it's only on YouTube.

[00:40:38] Because my definition of a podcast is it needs to be in more than one place needs to be more than one recording obviously.

[00:40:46] I need to be able to listen to it or watch it without Wi Fi without constant stream on Wi Fi so fun on an airplane I can't watch YouTube.

[00:40:55] Unless I'm paying for some kind of Wi Fi on the airplane so there's a lot of things in there that something is only on YouTube is not a podcast but that doesn't mean that.

[00:41:04] You shouldn't be on YouTube and you shouldn't try to get another viewer or listener to your show from YouTube you might put up YouTube shorts you might be doing some extra content that's YouTube only you can't do a lot of visual demonstration in an audio podcast.

[00:41:18] That's true look at this yeah yeah that's a downside to audio podcast if you're trying to like describe like his hair I'm taking out the engine of my car and this bolt here that bolt there.

[00:41:28] You can't see it so that I mean because you can describe things best you can but one thing that I like about YouTube is that.

[00:41:36] When I had the show with my wife we did the Chris Christine show and we put it up on YouTube as the static image the automatic RSS integration thing.

[00:41:44] As asked my mom because she listened to her show and I was saying like hey oh she'll listen to your episode I said that's great I just had curiosity I know you have an iPhone are using the apple podcast app because they just changed the thing where you can still look at the artwork and stuff.

[00:41:58] And she's like no I just watched on YouTube I'm like oh it's just easy I'm already she already watches YouTube for other things it's already there it's like no matter what platform you have no matter what kind of device you have no matter where you are.

[00:42:11] I mean other than you need why have five course you know to watch it and stream it but it's a very simple way to get somebody to the least press play on your content.

[00:42:22] So I look at it for that purpose in it in the day does it really matter where your listener listened to your show along as they listen to it.

[00:42:32] Or watched it or watched it yeah of course I'm saying like you know it doesn't really matter which will they use Spotify or they use this app or these that app or these YouTube of listen as a listen of you as a view.

[00:42:42] Yeah but the content still has to be good and there's a visual content that has to be it's visual content is different than audio content.

[00:42:51] Because if you have just two talking heads side by side for an hour on screen you're going to wander you're going to get distracted by a notification on your phone or something that happened outside the squirrels jumping from tree to tree whatever.

[00:43:05] You're probably going to wander from watching are you going to stick with listening intently to a YouTube video as that that that kind of video that's you know there's no production value there.

[00:43:18] You know listen to that or pay more attention to it than if you were you know mowing along with your headphones on listening to an audio podcast that's what I do.

[00:43:25] If I'm doing yard work I'm doing housework I've got the headphones on to consume content that I want to consume and it's not when I'm.

[00:43:34] You know trying to pay attention to something else so the visual content is different and it needs to be different to keep people's attention that's why you see jump cuts in videos so much.

[00:43:42] Yeah I think what is the retention rate on a YouTube video like when how many seconds or minutes or had yet to keep them hooked.

[00:43:51] Well I've got a client who wants me to do this to mimic what one of her peers is doing the first minute is just bam bam bam bam bam bam.

[00:44:03] I agree with that but then again I was watching this one example that she was pointing me to it was this fantastic beginning.

[00:44:10] It was showing screenshots and snippets of the guest and like hey we're gonna be talking about this and then the interview started and the host said hey welcome to the show.

[00:44:20] Oh thanks for having me and it was like the most boring car break hitting the wall type of thing that I was like what just happened I just saw the wall what was the energy in this.

[00:44:32] It totally didn't match so how long is good I don't know but you got to keep their attention throughout and.

[00:44:39] You'll I believe and I could be wrong, but for me I like shorter YouTube videos than longer ones if I see a video is going to be 30 minutes or longer I got to think twice about watching it.

[00:44:50] On YouTube on YouTube if you see that video on your screen what do you see on the column to the right of that screen.

[00:44:59] Other suggestions right things that might look even better so you're just like oh what's okay I click on this one, but this one looks better let me click on that one.

[00:45:08] And then you kind of go jumping from video to video and you might give it a minute sample of it you're like.

[00:45:15] Okay, well this isn't really catching me after a minute boom on to the next and I think with podcasting the audio format.

[00:45:22] I don't quite see that as a thing because you're not looking at the phone usually when you're listening to a podcast so you don't have that option to really jump from random video random show to random show.

[00:45:35] Like you can on YouTube that's probably why I think the retention rate is so low on a YouTube video you know versus something like an audio podcast.

[00:45:44] Yes, but that is an excellent discovery method right there and that is the reason why people need to be I said need I shouldn't say need that's why I believe people.

[00:45:55] would benefit from putting their content on YouTube is it good enough to keep people's attention is that their goal is you want them to listen to the full 40 minute interview or are you trying to get exposure to your show to get new audience interested in your content.

[00:46:12] I see I see YouTube is more like a social platform yeah me too yeah it's really more just being in front of people not for a very long period of time we're not getting involved in you know watching an hour long video on Facebook.

[00:46:24] Who does that well we do it on netflix we do it our big screen TV to do with them.

[00:46:29] YouTube doesn't feel that way unless like this is really something you can't get anywhere else, this is really engaging really interesting and I'll watch mark robert for 30 minutes straight because.

[00:46:39] He puts the production value it's really good but to talking heads side by side i'll listen to it and i'll get distracted from it as well.

[00:46:45] Well do you think it's in their best interest speaking of editing to chop that into like three segments and then put those separate pieces on YouTube as their own little piece.

[00:46:56] Well if you're just chopping up one big interview into three pieces there's gotta be a reason for it if it's segmented yes if it's just the conversation like ours we have not yet put that into the video.

[00:47:06] Little piece well if you're just chopping up one big interview into three pieces there's gotta be a reason for it if it's segmented yes if it's just the conversation like ours, we have not really stuck to any one point for a while in this conversation.

[00:47:19] It wouldn't make sense to break it up unless you were to break up like what when we started talking about video from other pieces of content.

[00:47:26] But doing video shorts makes complete sense or making shorter shorter videos from longer content because you're trying to get that exposure.

[00:47:35] To the show and that totally makes sense of course it takes a lot more money and time to produce video than audio.

[00:47:41] Oh speaking of producing so Steve let's talk a little about your actual production your your school your coaching you all your stuff all your good things you do where can people like sign up for it and what do you get what do you get out of it.

[00:47:53] I run a community the world's largest and most diverse community of podcast editors it's the Facebook group called podcast editors club we've got over 9000 members there it's fantastic my favorite place on the Internet.

[00:48:03] But we can go a little bit further there i've got a business partner his name is Mark deal you know he was always twisting little dials all over the podcasting space and he connected with me in.

[00:48:14] In 2018 I think it was with an idea and in 2019 we seriously talked about having a conference for editors and we did that and it was May 6 of 2020 in Orlando.

[00:48:26] The week before the world shut down but we got it we had it it was fantastic podcast editors from all over the United States and we even had a guy from Spain come out and he did a fantastic session we got the recordings.

[00:48:36] And we launched the podcast editor Academy where I can teach people how to start a small business serving podcasters as an editor producer type thing.

[00:48:45] And that's a podcast editor Academy calm and i'm actually starting we've been doing these four week sessions in depth lessons from experts in the field.

[00:48:55] In April, we had somebody talking about sound design in May we had Alex Sanford lipo from pod match talk about booking guests for clients and then in June of 2024.

[00:49:04] i'll be teaching it was my audacity workshop but it's really how to edit audio and it's a you know one hour for four weeks type of intensive training on how to edit audio.

[00:49:15] Fantastic that's great stuff man because I think that people don't seem to realize that you can make you know decent money from being a podcast editor if you do it on the side that's what I do.

[00:49:29] And flipping burgers.

[00:49:31] It's also better than trying to ask for a sponsorship or an ad in your show or dynamic ad in your show we might only make a few bucks.

[00:49:39] Yeah, if you're lucky, you know so I mean I would say like why push somebody else's junk for half a percent when you can sell your own products and services, especially your own services for all the money.

[00:49:53] You know it's a no brainer but no other people you know they think that their show is the is the thing for sale.

[00:50:02] You know I did that too I had that problem I thought the podcast was the product and it was really there to so I had a podcast I don't think we talked about this podcast from 2010 to 2015 I retired in 2015 right before.

[00:50:16] I became an editor for other people and it was it was just a weird coincidence.

[00:50:20] But it wasn't doing what it was supposed to do I was sitting there thinking why aren't people calling me why for coaching financial coaching.

[00:50:26] And I think it's because I was working so hard to make the podcast the product and there wasn't really a strong call to action to contact me there was a call to action it's just wasn't very strong.

[00:50:38] I believe podcasts are an excellent way to compete with the big guys to sell yourself your own products your own services things that you can offer people and the podcast isn't the product itself.

[00:50:47] That's fascinating I know more people than you really he'll hear that because they think they're you know buds and bros and drinking show in the basement is is the thing that is the draw that people are going to buy into but isn't really.

[00:51:02] Probably not hate the brick of the brick heart but you know but see this has been fantastic I really appreciate you stopping by today and give me your time talking about podcasting and editing and I really appreciate it man.

[00:51:14] As my pleasure hey one last time where can we find you on your website with your website again let's go to podcast editor academy.com and that's the best place to find all the stuff that I can help people with if they're looking to learn how to edit or learn how to be an editor.

[00:51:28] Perfect I'll put the link to that in the show notes of this episode Steve thank you once again and you have yourself a wonderful rest of your day man.

[00:51:35] Thanks Chris you too.

[00:51:37] That was amazing how fantastic was Steve coming on the show today it was awesome we learned so much today all about podcasting podcast editing what makes a good podcast what not to do with bad audio and audio in general so amazing such great words of wisdom.

[00:51:56] This has been a great experience if you also enjoyed this episode please let us know you know what you can do is you can tag us in a post on social media.

[00:52:07] Tag us both and tell us why you love this episode that'd be great and if you stick around for the very next episode I have an amazing treat we're going to talk all about YouTube.

[00:52:21] I know this is an audio podcast but for the very first time i'm going to be stepping out of my audio element.

[00:52:28] To get right in front of the video camera and have a conversation with an amazing youtuber now I do not want to spoil the surprise for you, but I will let you know you know who this person is and they are very big in the tech video and podcasting space.

[00:52:47] So if you have not already please hit subscribe or follow wherever you are listening to this show right now and that way you will not miss the amazing episode which is coming up next for you and until then happy podcasting.