145 Maximizing Your Podcast's Reach: Harnessing Social Media Strategies with Katie Brinkley

[00:00:00] Once you finish recording your podcast episode, you think you are done. It is a wrap. It is good to go

[00:00:06] But then it comes in the marketing

[00:00:09] So today we're gonna go over the best strategies to properly market your podcast on social media by posting less

[00:00:23] Sound matters be heard

[00:00:26] Welcome to the podcast where you get exclusive behind-the-scenes tips to make your own show sound truly spectacular. This is

[00:00:35] Podtastic Audio

[00:00:38] What's happening? How are you doing today? Thank you so much for being here. I am Chris and I am from the original

[00:00:47] Chris and Christine's show podcast

[00:00:50] You know, you can find out every single thing about that show on a website which I built

[00:00:55] Yeah, check that out if you want to at

[00:00:57] Chris and Christine show calm link to it in the show notes of this very episode

[00:01:03] You can scroll on down and there it is. Hey, do you even read show notes? Do you look at show notes?

[00:01:08] I know a lot of people put a lot of emphasis on creating show notes

[00:01:13] And I put a little bit into it too, but I was kind of wonder who actually reads the show notes

[00:01:19] I

[00:01:20] Don't really when it comes to shows that I listen to only if they mention some tool or some website or something cool

[00:01:29] hopefully there's a link to it in the show notes and

[00:01:32] Anything else they put in there. I usually don't look at I was kind of wondering that the other day like how many shows that I

[00:01:40] Subscribe to that. I actually look at show notes, but enough about me. How are you doing?

[00:01:47] How is your podcast coming along?

[00:01:49] Do you have a podcast?

[00:01:51] Is it bringing you all the wonderful amazing things that you always wanted out of your podcast?

[00:01:56] Hey, are you famous yet? I know as your goal to become famous with your podcast and you have to surely by now

[00:02:03] Be on the billboard of all the billboards in your city because you're so amazing, right?

[00:02:09] Hey, I know podcasting is not super easy and it's not an instant overnight success

[00:02:15] It does take time

[00:02:17] it does take a lot of time to put in the work and effort to you know build a show and

[00:02:24] Make it somewhat successful even mega successful

[00:02:28] So I was kind of wonder how did some of these shows or some of these people like how are they?

[00:02:33] So much more popular than you are with your own podcast and that's where you got to stop yourself right there

[00:02:38] You should never ever compare your show

[00:02:42] Directly to another person's podcast or show or YouTube channel or any of those things

[00:02:48] Do not compare yourself to them compare yourself to your own self

[00:02:53] I know it's hard when you look at your stats and you're wondering like why am I not getting as many downloads as

[00:03:00] that show or

[00:03:01] YouTube views on your show compared to their show and you always go down this comparison things

[00:03:07] There's a lot of things that you may not be realizing that they have done that you have never done

[00:03:12] Like maybe they have been in the business of doing their show for many many many years

[00:03:18] Maybe they've already had a built-in audience that they brought to their show in the first place

[00:03:24] But for the rest of us mere mortal podcast regular people

[00:03:29] We don't have a massive audience of people we can bring into our show before we start our show

[00:03:35] So most of us start with basically zero

[00:03:39] Maybe your friends and family maybe tell them maybe a co-worker or something you tell them

[00:03:44] Hey, I've got a podcast

[00:03:46] Maybe you can check it out and if it's something they're interested in maybe they'll stick around for more than just one episode

[00:03:53] But let's not get carried away here. Let's make sure that our podcast is actually good in the first place

[00:03:59] Now one way you can do that is actually have somebody that you do not know that's potentially your target audience

[00:04:07] Give a listen to your show and you tell them. Hey, give me honest feedback

[00:04:13] I want the truth if it's bad, let me know if it's good

[00:04:17] Let me know if there's areas you think I can work on or cut or add

[00:04:23] Please let me know give me your absolute honest feedback

[00:04:27] You need to ask a few different people those things about your podcast assuming they will actually

[00:04:34] Listen to your podcast. That's always a tricky part getting somebody to physically press play on the podcast in the first place

[00:04:40] Assuming that they do you should always get some kind of review back from them and that will help you

[00:04:48] Craft a better show don't always assume that the thing you made and you think is great

[00:04:54] Don't always assume that it's perfect your podcast is not a statue

[00:05:00] You can always evolve and change it any way you want down the line

[00:05:05] If something is working for you now or not working for you

[00:05:09] You can always adjust and change you do not always have to do an interview show

[00:05:13] And you do not always have to do a solo show and you do not always have to do a group chat

[00:05:19] Co-host a type of show you can do anything you want any way you want. It's your show

[00:05:24] You are the captain of your podcast ship. Okay, so let's just assume you got a decent show on your hands

[00:05:31] You've got some actual honest feedback back on the show and people seem to like it and they say this is good stuff

[00:05:39] Great, so the second part of creating any podcast is getting the podcast out to the masses

[00:05:47] aka

[00:05:48] Marketing your podcast now marketing is a tricky thing because a lot of the podcasters that I have seen

[00:05:55] They either spend a lot of time focusing on creating the podcast

[00:06:00] You know making it sound great great content delivering amazing value. That's stuff's great

[00:06:07] And then the other part of podcasters seem to focus a lot on

[00:06:12] Marketing more about marketing the podcast rather than creating a good podcast

[00:06:17] You should always have something amazing to market before you go try to market something like you wouldn't sell

[00:06:24] Something that was half baked out to the customer and with marketing you're essentially

[00:06:29] selling your podcast out to the masses to attract an audience new listeners

[00:06:36] current listeners

[00:06:37] You know listener downloads essentially is the currency for your podcast and that's what you're trying to get

[00:06:43] So when it comes to marketing a podcast as an independent hobby podcaster like us our biggest resource

[00:06:49] To use for marketing is got to be social media

[00:06:52] But what is the best strategy to market a podcast using social media?

[00:06:59] So today I'm bringing on Katie Brinkley

[00:07:03] Katie is revolutionizing social media marketing with her less is more approach

[00:07:08] With over 19 years of experience Katie has developed a unique

[00:07:13] Four post strategy that helps clients achieve more growth while posting less

[00:07:19] Because we don't have time to posting all day long

[00:07:23] So how do we use social media correctly to help promote our podcast and get more listeners? Well, let's ask Katie

[00:07:30] I've got into the podcasting world when so many of us were gifted

[00:07:36] The gift of time in April of 2020

[00:07:41] So I launched my podcast then but it was something that I'd been wanting to do for a while. I actually

[00:07:46] got involved in the world of audio

[00:07:49] Back in right out of college

[00:07:52] I landed my dream job and I was the post game reporter

[00:07:54] For the Broncos and the avalanche and the Rockies here in Denver

[00:07:58] So audio has always been near and dear to me. I wanted to launch a podcast

[00:08:02] I just didn't I was under the impression that you need to have all these things to really launch a podcast and

[00:08:09] Really what I just needed was to start doing it. And so April of 2020 I started and here we are

[00:08:16] You know, I've got almost 300 episodes under my belt now with my show nice 300 episodes

[00:08:23] Since 2020 you must have done like double up on a weekly or maybe is a daily show or oh my gosh

[00:08:30] No, I did have a daily show for a little bit and then I was like man. I'm crazy. No, so

[00:08:36] What I I up until 2023 so for two years I had it was weekly and then in 2023 I

[00:08:45] shifted to twice a week so

[00:08:48] Every Tuesday my podcast comes out and it's a guest interview and then every Thursday is a solo episode

[00:08:54] I call them my quick casts and they're around around ten ish minutes long. Oh

[00:09:00] I guess a good that's actually a good time frame. I'm trying to work on those myself when I throw out a little bonus episode

[00:09:06] That's you know five ish minutes things like that and I don't guess the interviews can run a little long

[00:09:11] I did an episode a little while ago about doing solo episodes and the benefit of doing solo episodes

[00:09:16] Have you have you seen a benefit in your shows from doing these solos versus the interviews?

[00:09:22] Absolutely, I think that having these solo episodes like it for me. I mean my show my shows on marketing and

[00:09:29] It's hard to listen to that much marketing. I would imagine I sure love it

[00:09:34] But my audience are not marketers

[00:09:37] They're entrepreneurs who know they need to learn the different marketing in order to grow their business

[00:09:43] And so how many different marketing episodes can they listen to every week?

[00:09:48] Well, that's where for me

[00:09:49] I learned that my audience had really grown to know like and trust me and the people that I was interviewing

[00:09:58] and they liked the interviews but they wanted more Katie and

[00:10:02] I was not I wasn't holding the microphone long enough as in these guest interviews because I

[00:10:09] Was just interviewing other people on their expertise and I found well, what if I mean?

[00:10:15] I know a lot. Why don't I just share my thoughts on this and that's where those quick cast episodes came in and

[00:10:22] It really revitalized my listenership my downloads

[00:10:26] They're short. I mean everyone has like 10 minutes so my listen my listen through rates went up and then I was

[00:10:32] showcasing this is why you can trust me and my guest because of

[00:10:39] The people I'm bringing on they might not be like, okay

[00:10:42] I don't know who this person is but oh well wait. I've already heard Katie

[00:10:45] She's talked about you know how what what she does with Facebook ads now

[00:10:49] She's talking to somebody else that she really admires well

[00:10:52] I need to listen to this episode then

[00:10:54] Right because the one common, you know thread across your entire podcast anybody's podcast is the host

[00:11:01] Yeah host stays the same the guests may come and go all day long

[00:11:04] But along as you know they come to see you or hear you they trust you and they know like and trust you so

[00:11:11] What comes to marketing say a podcast especially from like a hobbyist side of things like an independent show

[00:11:17] We don't have these massive budgets because it's all we ever hear about it's like

[00:11:21] Oh, they have a big audience because they've got a million dollar marketing budget

[00:11:25] They can advertise on the Super Bowl, you know, they could do that stuff. We can't do that

[00:11:29] So as an independent hobbyist, where do we start with marketing?

[00:11:34] Well, I think one of the the biggest things to keep in mind is

[00:11:37] And I know this is probably gonna sound crazy because I'm a social media agency owner

[00:11:41] But nobody goes to social media to listen to your podcast

[00:11:44] What you're gonna tell me that when I play podcasts on social media, nobody's looking for it there

[00:11:50] Well, they might be happy that you popped up into their feed, but they're going on social media to kill time

[00:11:57] And they're not going to listen to a podcast

[00:12:02] They're gonna go open up Spotify or good pods or you know, what whatever

[00:12:06] Their favorite podcast player is if they want to listen to a podcast. They're going on social media to kill time

[00:12:12] This is where you have to make sure you're not just posting a new episode or you know

[00:12:19] New podcast whatever it is that you are posting on there

[00:12:23] You're actually giving people value and making them problem aware because most of the people don't even realize they have a problem

[00:12:29] That you have the answer to in your latest episode

[00:12:32] They're on there again just to kill time

[00:12:36] Yeah, it's basically a big soul. I mean I look at social media

[00:12:41] I mean, I guess

[00:12:43] My perspective for social media is that you use it to maybe build community

[00:12:48] Kill time. It's especially flicking through like a lot of those quick reels or TikTok videos where it's just these quick little videos

[00:12:56] You're just flicking through them flicking through them. Eventually it gets kind of mind-numbing

[00:12:59] I'm just like not even really paying attention

[00:13:01] Just like does getting like kind of numb to it all and I know that it's a big push to get everything in the short form video

[00:13:09] Content out there as much as possible out there, but you have a different approach when it comes to posting things on social media

[00:13:15] Yeah

[00:13:17] And like I said, it's it's it's not I

[00:13:20] Don't think you need to be on social media so much and I know

[00:13:23] It kind of sounds a little a little counterintuitive from somebody that owns a social media agency

[00:13:29] But there's so much white noise out there. There's so many like you just said

[00:13:33] You're on there just to kill some time and you know, you have less than three seconds to get people's attention now

[00:13:40] And how do you get someone to stop their scroll? And well, it's by creating content that people are looking for

[00:13:48] Man, I haven't seen I want to see this person in my post in my feed

[00:13:52] I want to see what they have to say this person always has great information. Of course. I want to stop my scroll

[00:13:59] So this is where it really is important to go in

[00:14:02] With intention behind every single post and say, okay, well, what is my goal here?

[00:14:07] Do I want people to listen to my episode? Do I want people to sign up for my training?

[00:14:12] Do I want people to book a?

[00:14:15] Consultation call with me. What do I want them to just bought to buy my you know $2, you know lead bank

[00:14:22] Whatever, I don't know what your goal is, but you need to know what your goal is and you can use your podcast

[00:14:28] To help promote that end goal that's really going to

[00:14:32] Help scale your business

[00:14:34] Well, that's the thing is that people you get to really figure out and even as an independent

[00:14:39] Hobby podcaster I think the goal at that point would probably be get more listeners to the show

[00:14:45] That'd be like the big goal. So if your goal is to get more listeners to the show

[00:14:49] How can you leverage social media to make that happen?

[00:14:52] So why have a question for you here Chris? What what social media platforms?

[00:14:56] I'm looking at your website right now

[00:14:58] Okay, you know for the potastic audio and I see of LinkedIn and you have Instagram on there and I guess which

[00:15:06] Which social media platforms?

[00:15:08] One do you use for your business and in the show here and two which ones?

[00:15:12] You know, what's you're in the line at Starbucks?

[00:15:15] It looks like there was no line and sure enough you turn the corner

[00:15:17] There's not four cars in front of you. You're gonna you already have your phone open to pay on the app

[00:15:22] What's social media platform are you opening up to to kill time?

[00:15:27] Well, I think it depends on which one alerted me first because I have the alerts come to my phone

[00:15:32] So if Instagram is alerting me, I'll probably check out the other I kind of go to whatever alerts me that makes sense

[00:15:38] So or or if it's Twitter X that alerts me

[00:15:41] I'll go to that and then if nothing alerts me at all like you're saying it just a clean slate on all the apps

[00:15:47] Which one would I go to let me think?

[00:15:50] I

[00:15:51] Guess it kind of depends on which one I probably get the most interaction on

[00:15:55] And I think for me it's either X Twitter for now. It's threads threads been actually pretty good for me, too

[00:16:02] That's that's tough call

[00:16:05] I guess this is where to like

[00:16:07] Which one are you on cuz you just enjoy the people on it not necessarily what hey

[00:16:13] I got an inner notification someone responded to me, but you you don't need to create content you just are on there to

[00:16:20] Hang out kill some time you don't have much time. You're just I already had my app open

[00:16:26] Yeah, so I probably Instagram pie scroll through Instagram

[00:16:29] I think a lot but I think what the Instagram thing too is I keep this I keep a phone on silent most of time

[00:16:34] So unless I

[00:16:36] Have it turned on I guess he touched the screen on Instagram where it turns on the volume

[00:16:40] Where you can hear the whatever they're playing and stuff for the most part

[00:16:44] Unless it's like a reel to where they're saying something even with captions on

[00:16:49] I mean, it may want to hear what they're saying, but don't always you know, it depends and then

[00:16:54] I'll have it on to listen to what they're doing a lot of times

[00:16:59] There are certain posts that I do see there's this one

[00:17:02] I don't know if you may have seen it or not

[00:17:03] But there's a lady in San Diego is working for the news agencies in San Diego here

[00:17:07] And she always posts the same thing or the same style of content

[00:17:11] Which is always fascinating to me and that's like real-state market stuff

[00:17:15] Especially here in San Diego and the in the renting, you know

[00:17:18] Crisis and the prices for this and that all stuff

[00:17:21] She always posts that stuff on her on her Instagram and every time I see her face pop up

[00:17:25] I stop and check her out and check out what she's talking about usually like a top 10 place to live or

[00:17:30] The worst place to live or the highest rents and different cities and all that kind of stuff

[00:17:34] It's always good stuff and I always find it very fascinating

[00:17:37] So I always when I see her pop up

[00:17:39] I'm like, oh, we can see what she's talking about let me

[00:17:41] Unmute my phone and listen to her, you know

[00:17:44] Well, I'm glad you actually even said that and I promise I'll get back to

[00:17:47] Do original question you asked but I mean I

[00:17:50] Also have my phone on silent and this is

[00:17:55] Actually a great segue

[00:17:57] But how many of us have our phone or our volume on silent?

[00:18:01] And so when we open up these apps

[00:18:05] We see that there's movement. We see that there's a video happening, but

[00:18:10] We don't have our sound on so we just keep on scrolling

[00:18:13] And this is where it's extremely important

[00:18:17] Especially if Instagram is one of your main platforms not everyone consumes content the same way

[00:18:22] You turn your volume on for that San Diego realtor

[00:18:26] Chris

[00:18:28] But you might be scrolling right past other really relevant information good content

[00:18:33] but you have your sound off and

[00:18:37] I have my sound off most of the time. This is why yours truly is not on TikTok

[00:18:42] Is there a huge opportunity for people on TikTok right now?

[00:18:47] Especially like for podcasting and if you're creating video, you love video. Yeah, there's a huge opportunity

[00:18:54] But I'm not on TikTok because most the time I have my sound off

[00:18:58] And if I do have the sound on I have a six and a nine year old and this is second that they hear some sort of

[00:19:05] Sound come from my phone. They're like, what are you doing? What are you watching? Can I see? I'm like, oh, no

[00:19:10] I'm not doing anything on social media, you know, so this is where having a variety of content and

[00:19:18] posting on

[00:19:20] One or two platforms a variety of ways is extremely important if you're only posting reels on

[00:19:27] Instagram

[00:19:28] You're missing out on the people that enjoy a good old-fashioned carousel post or the people that like seeing just one photo in the feed

[00:19:36] The people that enjoy joining a live conversation

[00:19:40] You're missing out on all those people. And so this is where I see a lot of

[00:19:46] podcasters

[00:19:47] Making the mistake of oh, well, I'm gonna go ahead and turn on the video for my podcaster

[00:19:51] I'm gonna go ahead and create an audiogram

[00:19:54] And that's all that they do

[00:19:56] Because it's showing one type of content over and over and over

[00:20:01] And yeah, you might hit those people but a lot of people have the sound off and they just scroll right on past you

[00:20:06] And you're never going to get the engagement

[00:20:08] So on the note of having let's assume someone's got their phone on this assume

[00:20:13] They got their their volume on their phone there and they're on say reels on Instagram or stories or whatever

[00:20:19] Just think it's reals now. Yeah, and

[00:20:21] they

[00:20:23] You know come across your posts you created

[00:20:25] How quick or what should you have in the very first second of the real to grab their attention you

[00:20:33] What do you mean by you like? Yeah, you be on the thing like you think yeah, I I mean Chris

[00:20:40] You're a great guy

[00:20:42] But if you're on my show and I have a clip of you saying something brilliant

[00:20:48] Might be really really smart, but they don't know who you are

[00:20:52] Right, right, my audience doesn't know who you are. They're there for me

[00:20:57] So how can I entice my audience to listen to what you have to say?

[00:21:02] I have to say a hook that allows them to know I can trust you and certainly so that I can transfer over to whatever

[00:21:10] Brilliance you say. Oh well, thank you for calling me brilliant. I appreciate that

[00:21:15] But I guess I guess maybe the thing is is that the attention span for these social media like

[00:21:21] Platforms and stuff it is so quick and so short because we're constantly

[00:21:25] Like flicking the phone to the next thing with your thumb just flicking it up that I mean you have to catch him with them

[00:21:31] Maybe a second or less. Yeah, and I think that this is where

[00:21:35] Really knowing who your ideal listener who your ideal client who your ideal customer is so it's it's invaluable

[00:21:44] If you know who they are

[00:21:46] my friend okay, so my friend red calls it your invisible best friend and

[00:21:52] You know your but I mean, I know my best friend Chelsea. You know she loves to garden

[00:21:57] She's a nurse. She has two small children. She loves, you know some good

[00:22:03] 2000s hip-hop

[00:22:05] You know, she loves being outdoors. She loves Michigan football. I know a lot about Chelsea

[00:22:10] I know how old she is. I know on her birthday as an older husband does

[00:22:14] That's what you need to think of when it comes to who's listening to you or who your ideal client is who's buying from you

[00:22:21] So no them inside and out it can't be like I'm doing a show for everybody

[00:22:26] Everybody can listen to my show because I want to put that big net out the entire world

[00:22:30] I want to capture everybody to listen to my show. I want everyone to listen to my show too, however, I

[00:22:37] Know that when I show up on social media

[00:22:40] I have to talk to that one person

[00:22:42] I know who I'm talking to on Instagram and

[00:22:45] I know who I'm talking to LinkedIn and they are two very different people

[00:22:49] However, do I I mean so on Instagram?

[00:22:54] 70 I think oh man now. I just checked this morning at 76 percent of my audience on

[00:23:01] Instagram are females between the ages of 35 and 44

[00:23:06] 76 percent that does mean that there's

[00:23:10] 24% dudes maybe

[00:23:13] That or that don't that follow me that you know are in different age ranges, but I know

[00:23:20] the age range and

[00:23:23] gender of

[00:23:24] my audience on Instagram

[00:23:27] Now over on

[00:23:28] LinkedIn it's it's very different

[00:23:31] You know most the people that follow me there

[00:23:33] Have the title CEO CXO CIO

[00:23:37] CTO they work at companies that have at least 10,000 employees. I know who's following me over on LinkedIn

[00:23:45] You think that their goals

[00:23:47] between

[00:23:48] The people that follow me on Instagram and the people that follow me on LinkedIn are a little different

[00:23:53] Yeah, and I know that when I post a picture of me and my daughters on Instagram

[00:23:58] It does much better than if I posted a picture of me and my daughters over on LinkedIn

[00:24:03] Not to say that they don't like my daughter

[00:24:06] But the way that I can tell the narrative and can tell the story is

[00:24:10] Very different between those two platforms

[00:24:12] And so you it's extremely important to know who it is that you're talking to so you can speak directly

[00:24:18] To that person and say hey

[00:24:21] Mom that is you know trying to to be a mom and be an entrepreneur and grow her business and do all the things

[00:24:28] Listen to this episode. It doesn't feel like you're doing all the things and you're going in a million different directions

[00:24:33] I actually sit down with guests so and so on this week's episode of Rocky Mountain Marketing

[00:24:38] And we talk about the top 10 tips to help you delegate your day so you never get overwhelmed

[00:24:44] It sounds like you presented the problem to the

[00:24:49] Specific person and then you say in this episode we have the answer

[00:24:54] Correct. Okay, so that's kind of that formula for most social media that you should be posting

[00:24:59] for your show

[00:25:01] So I have a four post framework and the four post strategy. I call the

[00:25:07] Awareness to action strategy and it's utilizing

[00:25:10] These platforms and that's why I asked you earlier which platforms one you enjoyed being on and two

[00:25:15] Which ones you feel like you get the most engagement from?

[00:25:18] Because I don't think you need to be on every single platform and if you're doing the four post strategy you can talk to

[00:25:24] Each person on these platforms where you're going to get the most reach in the most engagement in the most impressions

[00:25:30] It's the very first post is you have to make people problem aware

[00:25:34] So for example, if it's Instagram making people aware

[00:25:38] That they are overwhelmed. So maybe I post a reel

[00:25:42] Doesn't nothing to do with the podcast a clip nothing, but I can just do a picture of me

[00:25:50] Working let's say and on this the text on the screen can I'm just going off of this overwhelmed

[00:25:56] Delegation thing. I don't have an episode on that. Maybe I should have one

[00:26:00] But let's say I say in the on the screen I can say these three tools helped eliminate

[00:26:08] five hours of

[00:26:11] My work week and I can just name off three tools that I that I use that have helped

[00:26:18] Me eliminate, you know, some of my work like oh my gosh

[00:26:22] I was spending five hours a week editing my podcast and creating the show notes and doing this and doing this

[00:26:27] These these three tools changed everything

[00:26:30] I've made people aware that hey, there's there's a tool out there that will save you time

[00:26:34] Maybe over on LinkedIn because I said that was my other platform. I do a LinkedIn poll and

[00:26:40] on the LinkedIn poll I can say

[00:26:42] how

[00:26:43] How many hours a week if you have a podcast how many hours a week would you say you spend in

[00:26:49] the with the production and

[00:26:52] Then I could just do like one hour two hour five hours, whatever just again making people problem more

[00:26:56] I've told I've told them nothing about the podcast episode

[00:27:00] I don't even know if there's an episode. It's just made them problem aware. Yeah, it's about getting I guess the community to kind of like think of

[00:27:07] That the problem that you could present to them and then hopefully in theory

[00:27:13] I would think playing the long game here is that maybe

[00:27:15] They would hope that you have the solution to the problem and that you fall they follow you to the solution

[00:27:21] Exactly

[00:27:22] That's how it is now when it comes to social media

[00:27:24] I hear a couple things one thing I'd have heard about when they post social media is that if you have a podcast like any podcasters out there

[00:27:31] That you should only post new episode stuff. Maybe 1% of all the other stuff you post

[00:27:38] So I talk about my podcast every week. I just use the for post strategy for it. So

[00:27:44] For again, I'm just using examples here, but like for LinkedIn today

[00:27:49] I released an article that I wrote about

[00:27:54] What the problem was so this week's episode we talked about the book profit first in it

[00:28:00] And I introduced what the what profit first, you know way of

[00:28:05] finances is

[00:28:07] How my guest is doing it for his business how I do it for mine three actionable takeaways of

[00:28:13] Profit first and by the way, I have an entire podcast episode on it if you click here

[00:28:19] Okay, okay

[00:28:20] So it's kind of getting hooked up like a bite-sized bites of it and then what the full meal the full thing come come join me in the podcast itself

[00:28:28] Okay, okay fantastic. I know I know that some apps like LinkedIn let you put links in the post and Instagram

[00:28:36] Not so much so we're on Instagram trying to post something you're trying to get people to go to the

[00:28:42] Like guess the show how do you do it with Instagram post?

[00:28:46] Yes, so for Instagram, I love asking people just to comment something

[00:28:52] so

[00:28:54] For example, like I just recently did a

[00:28:57] Real and in the real I say you know comment AOC below

[00:29:03] And there's a bunch of people that have commented AOC and then it allows me to know okay these

[00:29:10] acts amount of people are

[00:29:12] Have given the world

[00:29:16] Public view that they they've they've said Katie you can you can slide into my DMs

[00:29:22] And I am ready and waiting with open arms and now I have a one-on-one conversation

[00:29:28] With my actual

[00:29:30] Listener, that's great. That's fantastic in the DMs and I can say okay these X amount of people

[00:29:37] Want to know more they want to listen to the show here's the link and I can follow up with them

[00:29:42] Three days later and say hey, what'd you think? What was your biggest takeaway?

[00:29:46] That's great. It's it's always good if you can have a chance to have a conversation with somebody who actually listens to your show

[00:29:53] Yeah, I always like to say like what do you take away? What what can we change? What did you like?

[00:29:58] What did you just like? I mean if you can I know it's sometimes as hard as a

[00:30:02] Content creator to have those conversations with people because you want everybody to just like it

[00:30:07] You know they always say like oh, please

[00:30:10] Review my show. Let me know what you think. Hey, I said are you sure?

[00:30:13] I mean because I'll give you a review if you sure and then and then I review it

[00:30:17] It's hot garbage, and I'm like well

[00:30:19] I mean it's not you know and then they get mad at me

[00:30:22] So then I'm like well I guess I'm gonna review shows anymore because people don't take it for a while

[00:30:26] I just realized nobody wants to hear the negative

[00:30:29] They just want to hear it's fantastic mom says it's great and it's amazing and we all love it

[00:30:35] You know that's all they want to hear so I think when people post things on social media

[00:30:40] And they'll post their show the poster things. They'll just hear crickets and nothing happening. I mean

[00:30:46] I mean how how do you tell somebody that maybe you're not posting?

[00:30:51] Maybe not correctly or maybe just posting too much of the wrong things. I think one of the biggest things is

[00:30:59] With social media

[00:31:02] LinkedIn LinkedIn Instagram Facebook, whatever it Instagram actually even more so think of your Instagram as a

[00:31:10] Kind of a little mini website, you know any post that someone clicks on

[00:31:14] Should help them navigate through the customer journey

[00:31:17] Just the exact same way that your your website does, you know if someone clicks on

[00:31:23] You know this link from your homepage and goes to your blog and the blog links to the podcast

[00:31:30] We want to make sure that that podcast doesn't take them down rabbit hole that they have a way of getting back to contacting us

[00:31:35] Yeah, so every single post

[00:31:38] needs to be

[00:31:41] Able to take your your ideal client through that customer journey. I tell people that the most important metric to track

[00:31:49] Especially on Instagram is profile views

[00:31:52] Because that's where people are going to learn more about you what you do

[00:31:57] Maybe clicking on your website maybe going through some of your past posts. They're learning more about you

[00:32:03] Profile views is a very underrated metric and if you have your profile set up the right way

[00:32:09] Any post that they click on is going to take them to a way of learn of

[00:32:15] Wanting to learn more from you and deciding that's my person. That's who I want to listen to that's the show

[00:32:21] I want to be a part of that's a community. I want to be a part of whatever

[00:32:25] Right, yeah, of course, you know, you want to make sure that well, it's all about know like and trust

[00:32:30] Yeah, if they know that can trust you they're gonna do business with you

[00:32:32] And even if your business is getting people to listen to your podcast which in a form

[00:32:37] I guess any podcast really in the basic form of it all is like a business small business really and the currency is

[00:32:45] Downloads so you kind of want to get people to get over there to get them to push play on your show

[00:32:50] So but what comes to like posting physical content all these social media platforms

[00:32:56] I mean, I know that like a lot of people just only post new episode out episode 10 is out here

[00:33:02] It is blah blah blah whatever even if they even if they say in the episode

[00:33:05] Okay

[00:33:06] We talked to so-and-so and it's gonna get we're talking about these three things or whatever but even with all that

[00:33:12] Shouldn't they also post other things?

[00:33:15] Yeah, I think that with your with posting on on social media that

[00:33:20] Your story so the the four post strategy is designed to take people through the customer journey

[00:33:27] Each different way that they can post different things

[00:33:31] So making people prom aware then the next post is an elaboration post

[00:33:35] This is where you have the opportunity to explain your thought leadership

[00:33:38] The next post is a community post how you overcame this problem also

[00:33:43] Or how you help the client overcome this and then the last post is obviously action asking people to

[00:33:50] Leave social media and go one step further with you

[00:33:53] But this this four post strategy allows you to post a number of different ways whether it's video going live

[00:34:00] A picture of of you and your daughter or your in the family, you know, whether it's whatever it allows you to showcase

[00:34:07] So many different sides of of you

[00:34:10] Your business your show and it's not all the same thing and you know, it's it's different

[00:34:16] It's a different way of thinking about showing up online

[00:34:19] And it allows you just the community post should be your favorite post to do every week because it allows you to show you

[00:34:26] in

[00:34:27] It's that's what people are that's that's what social media was intended for

[00:34:33] That's what social media was designed for was was for connecting and building community

[00:34:39] Right, right. So when it comes to

[00:34:43] Posting like I've been toying with live live streaming and why I feel a little bit. I've done a couple of them, you know

[00:34:51] Recently kind of toying with them and stuff like that. How powerful is it to do a live stream on like an Instagram? I

[00:34:57] Think that it's a great way to really show up and show the human side

[00:35:04] For me in my show, I love to have

[00:35:07] So if you were a guest on my show, I would love to say hey

[00:35:10] so the episodes coming out on just go say a random day June 4th and

[00:35:15] On Juneterre do you have time to pop on live for five minutes? We can just

[00:35:21] Talk a little bit about the show. I can introduce you to my audience a little bit more

[00:35:25] That sounds great because it kind of like I mean, I know it's not on Instagram

[00:35:28] I think in theory doesn't like show up on both person's feeds like I'm both we're both live together at the same time

[00:35:35] Yep

[00:35:36] So both audiences get to see that we're both live together at least on my side's gonna say I'm live

[00:35:42] Your side's gonna say you're live

[00:35:43] We both click on it and it goes goes to the same stream like this the live stream and that way both in theory

[00:35:49] You know both sides get to see each other and it's a great way to like I guess maybe cross promote

[00:35:55] Maybe you know gather some audience from both sides and stuff and kind of help build your pool

[00:36:00] exactly exactly that yeah, and and

[00:36:03] It's it allows you to share an audience everyone

[00:36:07] You know you get that front and center spot at the very top of the home feed

[00:36:12] You know because it's next to all the stories at the very very top if you're going live

[00:36:17] And so I mean you kind of Instagram again no one's really talking about going live everything short form video

[00:36:23] But there's still a power in going live with people and

[00:36:27] You can you can sell you know you can say you know have a link in there and say you know listen to our episode

[00:36:34] Here or you want to be notified when the episode comes out click this link and then you can get their email address whatever

[00:36:40] It's it. There's there's a number of ways that you can really grow your show your listeners

[00:36:46] And it's it's by using these platforms the way the way they want you to create content

[00:36:52] I mean we always are talking about our hashtag still relevant and you know the algorithms out to get me and well

[00:36:59] No, if you're if you're posting the ways that these platforms want you to there

[00:37:04] You're utilizing the all the different tools that they've given you

[00:37:09] They're gonna put you a little bit higher up in the pecking order

[00:37:14] Well speaking of higher up. I know that one thing I've struggled with Lisa on Instagram myself is building

[00:37:22] like a

[00:37:23] That's a huge audience but building a healthy audience good team. It seemed very easy to meet build

[00:37:29] followers on X Twitter

[00:37:32] And I think the certain platforms I mean it's my personal experience certain platforms seem easier to build on than others

[00:37:40] Have you seen that too with your travels with instant with social media in general?

[00:37:44] You know, I think that was well, I'm not on what I'm on X but not really anymore

[00:37:51] I was I was really into X up until about a year ago and then you know threads came out and

[00:37:58] threads wanted you to

[00:38:00] Be on it

[00:38:01] And so if you were active on threads and you got a higher rank in the algorithm whenever you actually posted on Instagram

[00:38:08] And I mean there's there's so many things and this is where I think it's really important just to

[00:38:13] diversify yourself enough, but you don't need to be everywhere and if I post something on

[00:38:20] X let's say I post a

[00:38:22] Real like a short form video on X

[00:38:25] It's not gonna perform the way that it would on Instagram and there's a different culture between Instagram and TikTok

[00:38:30] And there's a different culture between TikTok and YouTube shorts

[00:38:34] And this is where you really need to just take that step back and be like, okay

[00:38:38] Which ones do I which social platforms do I enjoy being on and which platforms is my ideal listener my audience on?

[00:38:46] Right, right of course it's I think is your if you're starting out as a newer show

[00:38:51] It's kind of hard to really tell so you decide to get all the platforms of Facebook

[00:38:55] We'd be me side to do all the things. Yeah, because he's throw it out on all the things

[00:39:00] You thinking that like a net trying to figure out which one should I focus on more?

[00:39:05] I mean I noticed early on I think in 2020 ish 2021 is that for me Twitter seem to be the place that I got the

[00:39:13] most engagement and I got the most

[00:39:15] Things and people seem to the following seem to grow grow pretty rapidly over there

[00:39:21] Put them in I mean not a massive following

[00:39:23] but I mean seem to grow pretty quickly there

[00:39:25] Versus at Instagram it grew but it kind of like it grew to a point where it kind of just tapered and stayed there for a while and

[00:39:32] Slowly now it's starting to grow up a little more

[00:39:34] But it's not the rapid growth that I saw over on Twitter X and I wonder if it has anything to do with the algorithm

[00:39:42] Or anything to do with anything. I don't know

[00:39:45] Yeah, I think that you know it it really comes back to

[00:39:50] What is your what is your your biggest goal?

[00:39:53] And if it's

[00:39:56] How many of those people you're like, yeah, okay, I was growing my following

[00:39:58] But how many of those people are actually coming we're listeners

[00:40:02] You know, were they actually coming and and listening to the show where they were they going one step further with you

[00:40:09] Were you tracking? You know

[00:40:11] Okay. Yeah, so I mean

[00:40:14] Transparently, you know, Instagram is my largest audience my largest audience

[00:40:19] All organic so proud of the fact that I've grown as much as I have

[00:40:24] But man, I just don't get engagement the way that I do over there anymore

[00:40:28] Oh really?

[00:40:29] And just not the way that I used to over before. I mean I used to consider it kind of like oh bummer

[00:40:35] I only got 150 likes man what I would do just for you know

[00:40:41] 150 likes these days. Yeah, you know and so this is where again it's but for me

[00:40:48] LinkedIn's not killing it. I know that for all the posts that I do over on LinkedIn

[00:40:54] People are clicking those links and they're going to listen to my show

[00:40:59] Or they're going to sign up for an audit with me whatever

[00:41:03] They're taking action. So the people that are there

[00:41:06] While it's at I don't know. I think like maybe

[00:41:10] 5,000

[00:41:12] I'm getting

[00:41:14] less

[00:41:15] Engagement but the engagement I'm getting is actually turning to

[00:41:19] The metrics and the kpi is that I know move the needle. It's not just like oh, they liked it

[00:41:24] No, no, no, they liked it and they clicked on it to go listen to the podcast episode

[00:41:29] And you follow those links those clicks. Oh, yeah

[00:41:33] Otherwise, what's the point?

[00:41:36] I mean like yes, it's

[00:41:38] What really otherwise? I don't know. Maybe maybe because I was never really popular in school, but I mean

[00:41:45] It's like kill that's really great. Like I I am way more invested in my email list than I am

[00:41:52] On social media. No, please if you guys like me, please go follow me on social media

[00:41:56] But at the same time like

[00:41:58] If you really like the stuff that I'm saying right now on today's episode

[00:42:01] Join my email list man if you're on that email list

[00:42:04] I

[00:42:06] Love you and those people

[00:42:08] It's it's the smallest audience that I have

[00:42:11] Like on social media combined between all the apps. I have around 100,000 followers

[00:42:17] My email list is around 3,000

[00:42:20] Wow, and it's way smaller, right? Way smaller

[00:42:25] But I have a 60 open rate

[00:42:28] That's good. Now. What is a good open rate for an email list?

[00:42:34] I think it's typically around 19 to 20 percent

[00:42:37] Okay, okay

[00:42:39] Now I always hear about the email list everybody pushes the big email list every email email

[00:42:42] You're not relying on algorithms

[00:42:45] But also too like I have like a thousands of junk mail that I never opened

[00:42:48] I've got like probably if I look at my email right now probably 20,000 emails unopened

[00:42:52] But the most of them are junk. I just ignore them or whatever

[00:42:55] And I've gotten too lazy to clean them up now at this point

[00:42:57] So with email, I always kind of thought that

[00:43:01] Because I've gotten email list stuff too and either I

[00:43:04] I just ignore them or don't open them and things like that

[00:43:08] How powerful is having an email list if half the people don't even open them?

[00:43:13] Well, this is where you have to write really good emails and and

[00:43:19] You know for me, I know

[00:43:22] Like I was saying before I get really

[00:43:24] I'm invested in my email list like people. I don't know

[00:43:28] I have my follower count goes up and down on social media every single day and I'm just kind of like, no, okay

[00:43:34] But on the email ooh

[00:43:37] That last email it had only a 40% open rate

[00:43:42] But of that 40% the click-through rate was this

[00:43:46] Okay, so I know this is really good. Maybe I should try resending it and I don't think enough people do try resending

[00:43:52] Emails maybe just wasn't the right time of day. Maybe they're on vacation

[00:43:56] If you have a really good email that had an okay open rate about great click-through rate or whatever whatever goal you had

[00:44:04] Send it again to the people that didn't open it

[00:44:08] You can do that you can see who I mean, I guess depends on your email client is but you can see who didn't open it

[00:44:12] Who did?

[00:44:13] Yeah, so it's one of the so like I use active campaign and

[00:44:17] I can go right in and hit duplicate and you know send send it again to people who

[00:44:23] Did not open it

[00:44:25] What are the people that did open it if I wanted to but

[00:44:28] Interesting that's an interesting strategy. I never thought about that now it comes to email campaigns. What is a good time?

[00:44:34] I mean, what do you think is the best day of the week to send emails out like this?

[00:44:38] Oh man, you know

[00:44:41] It's social and podcasting and contents definitely my

[00:44:47] My bread and butter, but there's so much that goes into email that I do not claim to be an expert

[00:44:53] I send my emails on Thursdays at Thursday afternoons

[00:44:56] I know like one person she sends it on sunday mornings

[00:45:00] You know, it's

[00:45:02] I don't know the best day to on time to send it

[00:45:06] I I just know that I send mine after lunch on Thursdays because I I want my content to just be something where they can

[00:45:14] kind of be

[00:45:15] Sit back and relax. They're my emails are long their newsletter style, you know, so it's

[00:45:22] People are opening up. I want them to be able to have the time to invest in it

[00:45:25] And if they're doing it on a Monday morning, it's right thrown right in the trash

[00:45:30] Yeah, there's so many other things going on

[00:45:31] So I think maybe a time of day or a day where there's not a lot of email coming into their inbox

[00:45:37] But then again on the other side of it too, if you're on vacation on a sunday or something you're checking email

[00:45:41] Probably not. Maybe you are. I don't know but

[00:45:44] I just gotta think it's kind of one of those weird things

[00:45:46] Same thing with social media too as people always say, oh, you got to post this day this time that time

[00:45:51] So on social media posting what are your best strategies for that time of day to post?

[00:45:56] Yeah, I think that for this is where again it comes back to

[00:46:02] Knowing who it is that you're talking to

[00:46:04] if if you know

[00:46:06] That hey, I'm

[00:46:08] Let's say

[00:46:10] I'm only on instagram or whatever and I have a mom podcast about delegating work life balance. Let's say that's my show

[00:46:17] well

[00:46:18] Winter shore client have downtime

[00:46:21] It might actually be

[00:46:24] On the weekend it could be sunday night

[00:46:26] Because the kids are done with all their things

[00:46:30] All the stuff for school is done and you're sitting down. You're relaxing

[00:46:33] And sunday night might be a really good time to send your email to do your post

[00:46:39] You have to know who it is that you're talking to and be looking at your insights and your metrics regularly because they change

[00:46:46] Wow. Yeah, that is true. And well for me, I've always been like time zones

[00:46:50] Because I'm on the west coast and I have an audience in europe

[00:46:54] And yet I see these things come across my feet or or messages and things like that when I wake up in the morning here

[00:47:00] Yeah, I'm looking at it because or I get home late at night and I'm posting something and I get a quick response back on it

[00:47:06] Like on a thread or something. I get a response back here

[00:47:09] There's three in the morning my time, but it's probably you know, whatever noon there or whatever it is

[00:47:14] so um always kind of be aware of

[00:47:16] Different time zones now does it become a factor when you are posting social media stuff to think about the time zones?

[00:47:22] It not too much. I mean, I know where most of my audience is

[00:47:26] Um and the majority of my audience isn't here in colorado

[00:47:30] But then second place is new york followed by sacramento

[00:47:35] So really that's four hours. I got to try and work with

[00:47:40] So I like my email

[00:47:42] I'm just keep going back to email probably because I just sent it out before we hopped on the call

[00:47:47] Okay, my email is is scheduled to send thursday's at at one o'clock mountain time. That's noon

[00:47:53] You know on the west coast and three on the east coast. So I mean

[00:47:59] It it's tricky

[00:48:01] But you have to go with where your core following is

[00:48:04] That's where it's so important to figure out who your ideal listener is and follow all the different metrics

[00:48:10] I know with podcasting depending where you host your podcast a lot of them do show you

[00:48:15] What part of the world your

[00:48:18] Downloads are coming from so you can have an idea of like a listener's in this country or that country or whatever it is

[00:48:23] and I think

[00:48:25] Should you really cater your posting schedule to the majority?

[00:48:29] Like say you get the majority in the united states

[00:48:32] Most listeners are from the united states

[00:48:34] So I should really focus my content and my energy here versus other places and let them figure it out or what?

[00:48:39] Yeah, I'm short answer. Yeah

[00:48:42] Uh

[00:48:44] It it's definitely um

[00:48:47] You know in my podcast it comes out at 8 a.m mountain time

[00:48:51] Really, that's 10 o'clock over on the you know east coast but

[00:48:56] Again looking at my metrics

[00:48:58] Danvers were my core audiences. So I have to do what the majority of my audience

[00:49:04] of you know

[00:49:06] What wants what works for them? What is your thought on

[00:49:10] Time of day of posting the actual releasing the podcast episode doesn't make I mean

[00:49:14] I always thought it didn't make a difference because it's time shifted content anyways

[00:49:18] But do you have any thoughts on that? I wonder what time of day to post

[00:49:22] I think that the best time to post is during the morning commute time

[00:49:27] Okay, because uh, even though so many of us work from home

[00:49:31] You know that I've found with my podcast have sticking to around 28 minutes

[00:49:37] You know in releasing when people have already dropped the kids off at school

[00:49:42] You know and they're on their way into the office then that's the best time for downloads for

[00:49:47] Me and my audience nice

[00:49:50] Fantastic. Well, Katie, this has been so wonderful having on the show today. I do appreciate you stopping by today

[00:49:56] Where can everybody find out all about you and all your wonderful stuff?

[00:50:00] Yeah, you can connect with me at katiebrinkley.com and uh, yeah, that's the best way to listen to the show

[00:50:07] Hear my appearances buy my book all the things

[00:50:11] All the things. Well, this is so great. Katie any last words to give to our audience before I let you go here today

[00:50:17] I have last words stop posting so much

[00:50:22] But the kids love it come on out

[00:50:25] That was fantastic

[00:50:28] Thank you, katie so much for stopping by today. Your information was so informative and I learned so much

[00:50:34] I mean who knew that maybe you should try posting only four things in your four post

[00:50:40] Strategy to get more clients and more downloads and one thing I did take away from all of our conversations today is that

[00:50:47] No matter what you need to be constantly posting something of value

[00:50:51] To the listener posting things that have no value at all

[00:50:56] Really are just mind numbing and we don't even pay attention that stuff

[00:51:00] If there's something truly informative that you are posting on your post something that really is intriguing

[00:51:06] To the audience something that when they are scrolling through social media and they see your post

[00:51:13] They have to stop on it and say wow, what is that?

[00:51:16] Let me dive deeper and see what this is about

[00:51:19] And if you want to learn more about katie brinkley all of her information is down in the show notes of this very episode

[00:51:26] Thank you once again for listening all the way through to the very end of this podcast episode today

[00:51:32] I truly do appreciate you and I make these shows directly for you. I don't do this to be famous

[00:51:39] I only do this to serve you

[00:51:42] And I hope you got some amazing value out of today's episode

[00:51:46] And if you did can you please let me know by leaving a rating and review on your favorite podcast player

[00:51:53] That way I know to keep making these things for you and you keep enjoying them and until next time happy podcasting