175 | Creating Audio That Connects: Jodi Krangle’s Guide to Building a Lasting Podcast Audience Through Quality Sound

[00:00:00] Think great voice is just about sounding good? Not even close. We're revealing the secrets to audio that grabs attention, the truth about AI, and a surprising tip that could change everything for your podcast. Find out on this episode.

[00:00:23] Sound matters. Be heard. Welcome to the podcast where you get exclusive behind the scenes tips to make your own show sound truly spectacular. This is Podtastic Audio.

[00:00:38] Hey, what's happening? How are you doing today? Thank you so much for being here. I am Chris and yeah, this is Podtastic Audio.

[00:00:49] The show which I have designed and created to help you, yes, you make an amazing show for your audience.

[00:00:58] And one amazing tool to help you make sure that happens is Riverside.fm.

[00:01:03] Today's episode is brought to you by Riverside. And let me tell you, if you're recording with remote guests, you need Riverside in your toolkit.

[00:01:12] Imagine capturing studio quality audio and video, even if your guest is across the country or around the world. No more glitchy sound or pixelated videos.

[00:01:24] Riverside records everything locally, so each track sounds and looks as good as if you are in the same room.

[00:01:32] And the editing? Well, it's a breeze. Riverside's new editor lets you adjust volume, clean up any crosstalk, and even use their AI one-click video editor to automatically set up the scenes and create magic clips for social media.

[00:01:49] And another cool thing within that editor is that you can add background music, captions, text overlays without even breaking a sweat because it's easy peasy.

[00:01:59] Now, if you're ready to take your podcast up to the next level, you get to use my promo code PODtastic and check this out. You get yourself 15% off.

[00:02:10] Check out the link in the show notes and let's get recording with Riverside.fm.

[00:02:16] Every single podcaster that has ever recorded a podcast and whoever will record a podcast has one thing in common.

[00:02:25] And would you like to guess what that one thing is?

[00:02:29] Well, if you said their voice and your voice, you would be correct.

[00:02:34] Every single podcaster has a voice and a message to share.

[00:02:39] So, to get the most out of your voice, today we are joined by Jodi Krangel, a seasoned voice actor who lent her voice to some of the world's top brands.

[00:02:51] We're talking like Dell and Kraft.

[00:02:53] Jodi's experience goes beyond voice acting.

[00:02:56] She's also a singer, a podcast host, and she worked on some of the earlier forms of the internet, bringing a unique perspective on audio branding and how sound can make a lasting impact.

[00:03:12] On this episode, Jodi shares some of her powerful insights, including why sound matters in marketing,

[00:03:19] the AI voice versus the human voice.

[00:03:22] Let's find out what she thinks about that.

[00:03:25] Plus, essential tips for every podcaster to get the best sound out of their podcast.

[00:03:32] So, as a podcaster that uses a microphone, the first thing I want to know is, how does one become a voice actor?

[00:03:41] Tricky question.

[00:03:43] It really depends on what kind of things you want to get into.

[00:03:47] So, I am mostly in the marketing, branding, advertising end of things.

[00:03:52] So, I do mostly commercial and corporate narration and maybe some in-show narration for the TV and that kind of thing.

[00:03:59] But if you want to get into animation, video games, that's a completely different way to get into things.

[00:04:06] Audiobooks, again, are a completely different genre to get into.

[00:04:09] Yeah, there's just, there's a lot.

[00:04:12] E-learning, anything long form.

[00:04:14] I mean, the e-learning stuff and the corporate narration can be a little easier to get into than, say, the audiobooks and the animation and video games and even the commercials.

[00:04:26] Really?

[00:04:26] Yeah, and promo because, well, because there's so much work for people in the e-learning genre and corporate narration.

[00:04:36] There's a lot out there.

[00:04:37] And that's not to say that you don't need to be good because you do need to be good.

[00:04:41] But it's maybe there's less, there's still acting involved.

[00:04:47] It's all acting.

[00:04:49] It's all about who you're speaking to and how you're communicating with them and the premise of why you're communicating with them.

[00:04:57] So, who are you speaking to, right?

[00:04:59] Are you speaking to your friend?

[00:05:00] Are you speaking to your mom?

[00:05:02] Are you speaking to a six-year-old kid?

[00:05:05] You know, like there's completely different perspectives on all of that.

[00:05:09] But e-learning and corporate narration tend to be a lot more forgiving as far as acting is concerned.

[00:05:16] Well, with a lot of the e-learning stuff and a lot of that kind of stuff, I would think that some of them are probably leaning more towards AI voices for that stuff.

[00:05:27] Well, the reason that I don't think that's the case for e-learning, I think people try it out for e-learning and then they come back to a human voice because we can tell.

[00:05:38] Consciously, we can't tell sometimes, but subconsciously, we know we're not listening to another human and there's no connection.

[00:05:44] And if you're trying to teach people, you want them to pay attention and you want them to actually learn something.

[00:05:50] They're not going to if they think it's an AI voice or if they perceive that it's an AI voice.

[00:05:56] Even if they don't perceive it, if there's no actual emotion involved, it can be off-putting.

[00:06:03] So, yeah, there's a conception out there that e-learning is okay for AI.

[00:06:07] I say no.

[00:06:08] I don't think so.

[00:06:09] Well, coming from the voice actor, I would think that.

[00:06:11] Well, I know, but there are uses for it.

[00:06:13] Like, for instance, like a weather channel that needs someone to say the weather, but it changes on a minute-by-minute basis, right?

[00:06:21] I think they have a weather AI person that used to say it on the radio.

[00:06:26] There's a radio channel, a weather channel.

[00:06:27] Yeah, yeah.

[00:06:28] And it would have that weird tone voice.

[00:06:29] I think that was years ago.

[00:06:31] It's probably getting better all the time.

[00:06:33] Yeah, I would think.

[00:06:33] I'm not saying that, you know, and I'm not saying AI is inherently bad.

[00:06:37] I do think it has its uses.

[00:06:38] I would really like to have my own personal AI voice so that I can correct things that are, you know, I happen to be away or I'm sick or, you know, someone needs to update a date in a corporate narration I did.

[00:06:54] Or, like, you know, things that need to change even if I'm not there or I can't do it and sound exactly the same or, you know, for some whatever reason that is.

[00:07:04] Or if someone just didn't want a session fee and they want to just have the text read in my voice, you know, I mean, it costs a little less.

[00:07:15] And sure, I'm fine with that if they want to do it.

[00:07:17] But I want control.

[00:07:19] Of course, but don't we all.

[00:07:21] Yeah, exactly.

[00:07:22] Exactly.

[00:07:22] So, but I'm not saying AI is inherently bad.

[00:07:25] I'm just saying it has its uses and some of those uses really shouldn't be for education.

[00:07:31] Yeah.

[00:07:32] Yeah, I get that.

[00:07:33] I mean, imagine a robot trying to teach a class.

[00:07:34] I don't know if they could do that.

[00:07:36] I mean, we're getting more used to it all the time.

[00:07:38] So I don't think it's completely off the chart.

[00:07:41] But I don't know.

[00:07:42] I just I don't think that it's a good idea, at least right now.

[00:07:47] Right.

[00:07:48] Right.

[00:07:48] Well, when it came to make a decision to jump into voice acting, were you trying to like mimic a voice that you heard, like, say, on the radio or cartoon character or anything like that?

[00:08:00] Did you kind of like say, I can make a really good X impression of whatever character it is.

[00:08:04] So I can try that.

[00:08:05] Is that what happened?

[00:08:06] No, actually.

[00:08:08] I think that the problem with someone imitating a character, if they're wanting to get into voice acting, yes, it's good to be able to mimic a voice and and good for you if you can manage it.

[00:08:21] But don't expect that that is going to give you a career because they already have that person doing that voice.

[00:08:27] That is correct.

[00:08:28] You to do it.

[00:08:29] Exactly.

[00:08:30] Right.

[00:08:30] So what you need to do is you need to maybe make an amalgam of a bunch of voices, a couple of voices that you've heard that are popular and just make your own thing.

[00:08:40] Right.

[00:08:41] So if you really want to get into animation, a lot of the people that are in that genre, what they're doing is they're taking their impressions of a couple of different people, maybe in their lives.

[00:08:54] An uncle, you know, that they really think is hilarious or a cousin who like is just completely outlandish and they want to sound like them mixed together, you know, or or a famous politician or something that they really want.

[00:09:09] Everyone's just doing the trumpet.

[00:09:11] Yeah.

[00:09:11] But if you take that that thought and you take one impression and you meld it into another, it gives something completely different that is yours instead of an, you know, an imitation of something that already exists.

[00:09:27] So, you know, for voice match, here's the thing about AI.

[00:09:31] Voice match is going to go away because AI will do it.

[00:09:35] Right.

[00:09:36] I think it does it right now.

[00:09:37] I mean, you could probably, it totally does it right now.

[00:09:39] The thing right now about it is consent.

[00:09:42] So you need to make sure that the person who created that voice is okay with it being emulated.

[00:09:49] And I guess even those commercials on the radio years and years ago and they have like supposedly some celebrity talking about some product, but the very, very end will say celebrity voice is impersonated.

[00:10:01] They have to say that at the very end of everything.

[00:10:03] So if you have a podcast and you want to play some, have fun with it,

[00:10:07] maybe your intro is done by Arnold Schwarzenegger or the voice, you know, voice impersonator.

[00:10:12] Do you have to say that in the podcast somewhere?

[00:10:14] I think you should.

[00:10:16] You could conceivably get sued if you don't.

[00:10:18] Right.

[00:10:19] Even if you don't say, even if you don't say, hey, this is Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[00:10:22] You don't say that, but you have his voice.

[00:10:24] You can still, okay.

[00:10:25] But you could still get sued.

[00:10:27] Oh yeah.

[00:10:28] Because it's recognizably his voice.

[00:10:30] You can't say it's somebody else's voice.

[00:10:31] Yeah.

[00:10:32] It's just something to be careful about.

[00:10:33] And also the AI, like I said, can do that for you.

[00:10:37] You don't need a human being to do that anymore.

[00:10:40] So, you know, of all the genres that are probably going away, that's going to be one of them, voice matching.

[00:10:47] That's crazy.

[00:10:48] Yeah.

[00:10:49] Wow.

[00:10:49] Wow.

[00:10:49] So what do you think about all of those Fiverr voice artists, actors out there?

[00:10:56] Should we use them?

[00:10:57] Should we not use them?

[00:10:58] Are they hit and miss?

[00:10:59] What do you think?

[00:11:00] I don't know.

[00:11:00] I mean, you can use them.

[00:11:02] There's nothing wrong with that.

[00:11:03] Just the same way that you can use AI.

[00:11:05] Will it be the right fit for your product is what you need to think about.

[00:11:09] There's a whole bunch of them on there.

[00:11:11] Yeah.

[00:11:11] Well, exactly.

[00:11:12] But that's why I talk about audio branding.

[00:11:14] So if you cheap out on your audio, what does that say about your product or service?

[00:11:20] Correct.

[00:11:20] That is right.

[00:11:21] I was listening to a podcast like yesterday, just sampling, and I found them on social media.

[00:11:26] They commented something on my post, and I decided to check out their show.

[00:11:29] And I was listening to it.

[00:11:31] The intro sounded okay.

[00:11:32] It kind of went okay.

[00:11:33] So the volume sounded okay.

[00:11:34] Had some music, and they're talking about we did this and this and this.

[00:11:37] Great.

[00:11:37] And then this pause, and I'm thinking in the back of my head, well, I'm waiting for the shoe

[00:11:40] to drop, and it's going to drop the audio.

[00:11:42] It's going to go from here down to like a three.

[00:11:44] And sure enough, it sure did.

[00:11:46] And I'm like, what the what?

[00:11:47] And I think a lot of podcasters do that, especially like the Zoom recording shows where they'll

[00:11:52] have somebody, maybe an audio artist or something that did like an intro, and then they'll just

[00:11:57] throw on their Zoom show right after it, and the audio just drops.

[00:12:02] Yeah.

[00:12:02] Do you have any suggestions for podcasters to help fix that kind of stuff?

[00:12:05] It's called leveling.

[00:12:07] No way.

[00:12:07] Really?

[00:12:08] Yeah.

[00:12:08] Yeah, totally.

[00:12:09] Just level it.

[00:12:10] Yeah.

[00:12:11] So it just all needs to be the same volume level.

[00:12:15] It's an app, something you can do through Adobe Audition or Twisted Wave or whatever it is

[00:12:23] you're using.

[00:12:24] Well, obviously, the simple way, if you have two tracks, two audio tracks, you always can

[00:12:28] adjust the volume level or at least gain on each one.

[00:12:30] You can totally do that.

[00:12:31] Balance.

[00:12:32] That's an easy way to do it.

[00:12:33] I just don't think people think about it.

[00:12:35] They don't, do they?

[00:12:35] But what likely is happening is the intro is done by a professional.

[00:12:39] Yeah.

[00:12:40] You know, and then the rest of it is not.

[00:12:43] Right.

[00:12:44] Well, they record it every week or however they do it and stuff, and they just throw it

[00:12:47] on there and they call it a day and stuff like that.

[00:12:49] But I was kind of wondering, I think as long as it's listenable, it's fine, I think.

[00:12:53] But I think, just for me, that that audio seems to distract you from the content.

[00:12:59] It definitely does.

[00:13:00] I think some people will argue and say, no, the content is the only thing that matters.

[00:13:05] But if it's coming through like a tin can.

[00:13:07] Yeah.

[00:13:07] No, I'm sorry.

[00:13:08] They're wrong.

[00:13:11] They are just wrong.

[00:13:12] I'm sorry.

[00:13:13] Bad audio hurts my ears.

[00:13:15] And I mean, I'm really picky.

[00:13:18] So for me, yeah, it totally is a game changer.

[00:13:21] And I cannot listen to something for more than a couple of seconds if it's really awful.

[00:13:27] But even for your average everyday listener, you know, they might get by through five minutes

[00:13:34] of it or something.

[00:13:35] But if you have to ride your volume control on your on your car radio when you're listening

[00:13:41] to, you know, a podcast or if you're at home and you got to ride your gain on the computer,

[00:13:48] it's a pain in the ass, first of all.

[00:13:51] Right.

[00:13:51] Right.

[00:13:52] And second of all, it just hurts.

[00:13:54] It just it takes away from the professional information that's being shared.

[00:14:00] So if you are producing something that you want people to listen to on a regular basis,

[00:14:06] pay attention to your sound.

[00:14:08] It just I would say sound matters.

[00:14:11] I mean, I don't want to be heard.

[00:14:12] It totally does.

[00:14:12] Yeah.

[00:14:13] People I think people do a lot of the video stuff.

[00:14:15] Do you think sound matters as much with video as with audio because you don't have the video

[00:14:19] distraction or the same or what?

[00:14:21] I think it matters just as much, if not more.

[00:14:23] Actually, I know people who will watch bad video if the audio is good, but not the other

[00:14:29] way around.

[00:14:30] Really?

[00:14:31] Oh, yeah.

[00:14:32] Interesting.

[00:14:32] And that's actually I think there was actually a study that YouTube did.

[00:14:35] Really?

[00:14:36] Yeah.

[00:14:37] I can't.

[00:14:38] You know, don't quote me exactly because I don't know what the numbers really are.

[00:14:42] But I think that there was a study done at one point that said, yeah, the video content

[00:14:47] is important.

[00:14:48] But if your audio is bad, people are just not going to listen.

[00:14:51] And they're not going to watch through the whole thing because it's just painful.

[00:14:56] I know a lot of people will use their cell phones as their one-stop shop for everything.

[00:15:00] You know, you can record video and audio into it and put it on YouTube immediately.

[00:15:04] And I think some of the cameras and some of the microphones in these phones, like I have

[00:15:09] the new iPhone and all that.

[00:15:10] I think they're getting fairly good.

[00:15:12] But I still don't think you could probably get away with doing an entire podcast solely

[00:15:17] on the phone.

[00:15:17] I mean, there are processing tools you can use today to kind of enhance that stuff.

[00:15:22] Have you played with any of those enhancement tools?

[00:15:25] Honestly, no.

[00:15:26] Okay.

[00:15:26] Well, you have to.

[00:15:28] I'm not someone who likes doing a whole lot of stuff on my phone.

[00:15:31] I think it's just because...

[00:15:33] Oh, really?

[00:15:33] Well, because I grew up in an era where we didn't have these growing up.

[00:15:37] When I was a kid, I didn't have internet.

[00:15:40] Wow.

[00:15:41] So, yeah.

[00:15:43] Yeah.

[00:15:43] You know, I have my phone with me everywhere, just like everyone in the entire universe

[00:15:51] right now.

[00:15:52] But I don't rely on it for a lot of the things that a lot of people do just because I don't...

[00:16:01] I'll play games on it.

[00:16:02] I don't like doing editing with it.

[00:16:05] Yeah.

[00:16:05] I can't imagine editing anything.

[00:16:07] When I'm on Instagram and you do the Instagram reels, they have like the editor built into it.

[00:16:10] But even that's kind of like...

[00:16:12] But we're talking maybe a 10-second clip here.

[00:16:15] We're not talking an hour podcast or whatever.

[00:16:18] I can't imagine doing that.

[00:16:19] I'm not saying people shouldn't use their phone for stuff like TikTok and Instagram

[00:16:23] and stuff like that.

[00:16:23] Yeah, sure.

[00:16:24] Go for it.

[00:16:25] But a whole podcast?

[00:16:27] Depends on how long your podcast is.

[00:16:30] Right.

[00:16:31] Well, I know that I've got clients and I've had interviews before in the past where they

[00:16:36] come in on not the greatest gear and you have to kind of like make do and try to...

[00:16:42] My goal is always try to make sure it sounded as good as I could possibly make their stuff.

[00:16:46] Yeah.

[00:16:47] But you're at the mercy of their stuff.

[00:16:49] So if you were going to interview somebody and they came on with either just earbuds or

[00:16:57] maybe just a microphone built into a laptop, what would you do to help enhance that or

[00:17:02] tell them to fix that?

[00:17:03] Well, they need a separate microphone, first of all.

[00:17:06] It does not have to be an expensive one.

[00:17:08] I'll tell you this one right here is a USB condenser mic that costs about 100 bucks.

[00:17:13] It's really not all that expensive.

[00:17:15] It's called a HyperX and it sounds fantastic.

[00:17:18] And the reason it sounds fantastic is because I'm close enough to it.

[00:17:22] So that's what I would say.

[00:17:24] You don't need to have to spend a lot of money on a microphone.

[00:17:28] You need a separate microphone, but it doesn't have to cost a lot.

[00:17:32] And as long as you're close enough, you won't hear the room noise around you.

[00:17:36] I mean, you'll hear noise if something bumps or someone starts mowing the lawn next door.

[00:17:42] But, you know, as far as the room sound is concerned,

[00:17:47] you won't hear the wide open space of the room that you happen to be in,

[00:17:52] which can be very distracting because it's echoey.

[00:17:55] It's not a great sound.

[00:17:57] Yeah, but doesn't the condenser microphone pick more of that room noise up versus dynamic?

[00:18:00] It does.

[00:18:01] It depends on the way that it's situated.

[00:18:06] So this is a cardioid pattern.

[00:18:08] Okay.

[00:18:09] And when the pattern is not omni, because omni is all around you,

[00:18:14] you want it to be very specific towards where your mouth is.

[00:18:17] So cardioid does that.

[00:18:19] It's kind of like a, almost like a figure eight.

[00:18:22] It's kind of a...

[00:18:22] Right.

[00:18:23] Yeah.

[00:18:23] Like right in front of the microphone is the best spot for the pickup,

[00:18:26] not like around it and behind it and things like that.

[00:18:28] Yes and no.

[00:18:29] I mean, I'm a little to the side, right?

[00:18:31] Okay.

[00:18:31] Because I don't have a pop filter, that actually allows me to not pop all the time.

[00:18:38] Oh, okay.

[00:18:39] You know?

[00:18:40] Yeah.

[00:18:40] So just a little bit off to the side, just a little.

[00:18:43] And you can save yourself from a lot of plosives, which can be very troublesome in editing.

[00:18:49] So when you are doing the voiceover stuff, you're not using that mic.

[00:18:53] You're using a different mic, right?

[00:18:54] When I do my podcast, I'm on this mic.

[00:18:57] When I do my voiceover work, I'm in the booth with a 416, a Sennheiser 416,

[00:19:04] which is a $1,200 mic.

[00:19:06] So that's a little different.

[00:19:07] Now, can you tell the difference really?

[00:19:09] Audio-wise?

[00:19:10] Like if you...

[00:19:10] Yes.

[00:19:11] Okay.

[00:19:11] You can definitely tell the difference.

[00:19:12] I just want to know because, you know, some people say,

[00:19:14] oh, I can't tell the difference or whatever.

[00:19:16] You may not be able to tell between say a $300 mic and an $800 mic.

[00:19:21] Really?

[00:19:22] But you can definitely tell the difference between like this and a $1,200 mic.

[00:19:27] Yeah.

[00:19:28] But are you processing the same way?

[00:19:30] Like running through the same stuff, same gear?

[00:19:32] I don't run it through anything.

[00:19:34] Actually, this is running through nothing.

[00:19:36] This is straight from my computer to whatever signal we have.

[00:19:40] And in my booth, I'm using what's called a Mic Hero DSP,

[00:19:44] which is an audio interface that connects to my computer from my XLR mic.

[00:19:49] So the XLR, like the plugin that you have on your mic right there is an XLR, right?

[00:19:57] Right.

[00:19:57] Yeah.

[00:19:57] So you need to plug it into something to get the analog into digital.

[00:20:02] Correct.

[00:20:02] And that's the audio interface.

[00:20:04] So the audio interface connects my computer to my mic and everything works very smoothly

[00:20:10] with Adobe Audition, which is what I usually use for my voiceovers.

[00:20:14] Nice.

[00:20:14] So you record directly into Adobe Audition?

[00:20:17] Yeah.

[00:20:17] And then now, do you send that raw file over to the client or do you have to edit it first?

[00:20:22] I do edit it a little.

[00:20:23] It depends on the client.

[00:20:24] It depends on what they want.

[00:20:25] So a lot of my clients are production houses.

[00:20:28] So they want basically as raw as possible so that they can do whatever production they want,

[00:20:34] right?

[00:20:34] But I have some end clients that are just going to use what I send them in whatever video

[00:20:40] or thing that they're putting together, which means I might process it a little.

[00:20:45] I might make sure that the S's are a little less pronounced, like a D-S-er, just a little

[00:20:51] bit because I can get a little sibilant-y sometimes.

[00:20:54] I think most women, I think, kind of do that.

[00:20:56] I've noticed-

[00:20:58] It's more of a teeth thing than it is a woman thing, to be honest.

[00:21:02] A higher pitch voice sound, maybe.

[00:21:04] Yeah.

[00:21:04] That would be more trebly.

[00:21:06] Okay.

[00:21:07] So yeah.

[00:21:08] But yeah, sibilance is mostly a teeth thing.

[00:21:12] Interesting.

[00:21:13] Between your teeth and tongue.

[00:21:14] If you pronounce your S's in a very specific, like pronounced way-

[00:21:20] What a trip.

[00:21:21] And it goes, it whistles through your teeth.

[00:21:23] That's what happens.

[00:21:24] Oh, what a trip.

[00:21:25] Yeah.

[00:21:26] Yeah.

[00:21:26] What a trip.

[00:21:27] Yeah.

[00:21:28] So on that note with the, have you had, what's the craziest, I don't know if you can say this,

[00:21:31] what's the craziest script you ever got to like say for an audio thing?

[00:21:36] Oh, craziest.

[00:21:38] Like something you were like, I'm not saying that.

[00:21:41] I don't care what they pay me.

[00:21:42] You know what?

[00:21:43] There's actually never anything I have said that I, if I see something like that, that

[00:21:48] someone's offering me a job for, I just say no.

[00:21:51] Like I just don't do it.

[00:21:52] Right.

[00:21:53] Like if I really have a problem with it, I'm not doing it.

[00:21:57] Right.

[00:21:57] Right.

[00:21:57] Now, and that was so bad.

[00:22:00] And would your name, you're like, okay, well, I'll get paid to do this.

[00:22:03] I'll give you the thing, but you take my name off of it.

[00:22:04] Cause I don't want it.

[00:22:05] That statement being.

[00:22:06] Honestly, I've never done anything like that because I just wouldn't.

[00:22:10] Like it wouldn't even get there.

[00:22:11] It wouldn't even get there.

[00:22:12] Yeah, exactly.

[00:22:13] But I mean, like I've done medical narrations for like, you know, colon cancer and some of

[00:22:18] the stuff that you are reading is not all that pleasant and deals with some unpleasant topics

[00:22:23] of our bodily functions.

[00:22:26] Right.

[00:22:26] Now, how do you figure out like the crazy medical words?

[00:22:29] Cause some of those words are very, I can't read them like a prescription bottle.

[00:22:32] Like how do you, how do you, do you have a tool to help you like break it apart and figure

[00:22:36] out how to say it?

[00:22:37] Well, there is a, something on YouTube actually, it's called you English.

[00:22:42] So you Glish is kind of the, the, if you search for it.

[00:22:47] So it's a resource on the web that takes all of the YouTube videos and searches through them

[00:22:54] for the word that you put in.

[00:22:56] And you can look for how doctors have said it in videos.

[00:23:01] Okay.

[00:23:02] That really helps.

[00:23:03] Cause I've used the, on the Mac, they get, you know, like little buttons that speak for

[00:23:07] you or whatever, or even last Siri to do it or something like that.

[00:23:10] And it may or may not get it right.

[00:23:12] So you want to go to like either you Glish or to Merriam Webster.

[00:23:17] Cause Merriam Webster has a great resource.

[00:23:19] And a lot of those are, you can click on them and have them repeat the word for you.

[00:23:23] Yeah.

[00:23:23] Oh, nice.

[00:23:24] Yeah.

[00:23:24] I can see where that comes in trouble for names, especially names and probably medical stuff

[00:23:29] too.

[00:23:30] I mean, some names can be very hard.

[00:23:32] Yeah.

[00:23:33] But ultimately it comes down to what the client wants.

[00:23:35] So if the client wants me to pronounce something in a certain way, when I'm on a session with

[00:23:39] them, I just ask.

[00:23:41] So you, so you have like a meet and greet with them and you kind of like go over different,

[00:23:44] different things, different words.

[00:23:45] Well, sometimes in medical narration for the most part, they usually want to direct me live.

[00:23:53] So what that means is when I'm in the booth, we connect on Zoom or Skype, or maybe we even

[00:24:01] connect on Source Connect, which is a way for them to record on their end, what I'm, what

[00:24:07] I'm doing here.

[00:24:08] Okay.

[00:24:09] So it's, it's like a software that goes and, you know, software to software connection.

[00:24:14] And then they, they record what I'm, what I'm speaking on their end.

[00:24:19] Okay.

[00:24:19] Yeah.

[00:24:20] So remote recording, you know?

[00:24:21] Okay.

[00:24:21] Kind of like Riverside in a way, but it's, it's direct into the Pro Tools or whatever

[00:24:28] it is that they're using.

[00:24:29] Oh, on their end.

[00:24:30] Okay.

[00:24:30] Yeah.

[00:24:31] Okay.

[00:24:31] So it just makes it a lot easier for them.

[00:24:33] And when I'm in that session with them live, they might ask me to pronounce words in a certain

[00:24:38] way and.

[00:24:40] Or do a retake.

[00:24:41] We'll say that one.

[00:24:42] Or do a retake.

[00:24:42] Exactly.

[00:24:43] Yeah.

[00:24:43] Okay.

[00:24:44] Tone needs to change or whatever.

[00:24:45] Yeah.

[00:24:45] That makes sense.

[00:24:46] Yeah.

[00:24:47] That makes sense at all.

[00:24:47] So before you go in there and start to record, what are some good tips to give anybody who's

[00:24:53] using a microphone or a voice for anything?

[00:24:55] Like to kind of warm their voice up.

[00:24:57] Like how do you get it tuned just right?

[00:24:59] Well, the first thing I would say is hydrate.

[00:25:02] Definitely drink a lot of water and you need to have had water 20 minutes before whatever

[00:25:07] you're doing because it takes a little while for your body to absorb the moisture.

[00:25:12] So you can't just drink right before you're going to start and expect it to work.

[00:25:15] While you're doing it.

[00:25:17] Yeah.

[00:25:18] I mean, it helps, you know, because eventually you're going to get a little sticky because

[00:25:21] your inside of your mouth kind of sticks to your teeth a little.

[00:25:27] Like that's what ends up happening.

[00:25:28] And it depends on how much smiling you're doing as well, because the more smiles you do,

[00:25:33] the more crackling you might hear.

[00:25:35] Right?

[00:25:36] So.

[00:25:36] Really?

[00:25:37] Yeah.

[00:25:37] Yeah.

[00:25:38] So it depends on what it is that you're doing.

[00:25:40] But also in the moment, if you're having a problem with clicks and, you know, mouth noise

[00:25:46] and stuff like that, green apples are an amazing thing.

[00:25:50] Green apples.

[00:25:50] Not red ones?

[00:25:51] Nope.

[00:25:52] Green apples.

[00:25:52] Because they're a little tart.

[00:25:54] And so there's something in that juice that clears away the crackles.

[00:26:01] Fascinating.

[00:26:02] Yeah.

[00:26:02] What a trip.

[00:26:03] What a thought.

[00:26:04] Yeah.

[00:26:04] You know, I always heard like the warm water or tea or something like that.

[00:26:09] Well, it shouldn't be cold because if it's freezing cold, you're freezing your windpipe,

[00:26:14] right?

[00:26:14] Like you're just freezing your vocal cords.

[00:26:16] Like it's just not going to help.

[00:26:17] But do you do those like vocal training where they say me, me, me, me, me or things like

[00:26:21] they do things like that to kind of warm it up or.

[00:26:23] I don't do that.

[00:26:24] I will.

[00:26:25] I'm a singer.

[00:26:25] So I might sing a little in the morning before I get ready to do something, but probably

[00:26:31] not the best person to ask about warmups because I don't do them all that often.

[00:26:35] I think a lot of indie podcasters don't even think about this stuff.

[00:26:39] Like they just jump on probably with a beer in hand and start, you know, going and start

[00:26:43] talking and that kind of stuff.

[00:26:45] One of the worst things you can do is have coffee just before.

[00:26:48] I just drank coffee before.

[00:26:50] Yeah.

[00:26:51] It's not good.

[00:26:52] It depends.

[00:26:53] If it's black, maybe you're okay.

[00:26:55] Oh, creamer all day.

[00:26:56] Come on.

[00:26:56] If you have like sugar and a sweetener and cream or some kind of like, you know, milk

[00:27:02] or whatever in it, it's not going to help you much.

[00:27:05] Yeah.

[00:27:05] What I've noticed is that like, I'll like have my throat get stuck a little bit.

[00:27:09] I'll have to clear it.

[00:27:10] I'll have to like stop the recording.

[00:27:12] Yeah.

[00:27:12] I mean, it helps when you do a solo episode, you're doing something like this or anything

[00:27:15] else.

[00:27:16] It's harder to stop and start.

[00:27:18] Yeah.

[00:27:18] It's like, hey, hold that thought.

[00:27:20] I'll be right back and go for it.

[00:27:21] But I know with podcasting that you do mostly interviews or solo shows or both?

[00:27:25] I kind of do both.

[00:27:27] Although I have been doing way more interviews lately than I have solo episodes.

[00:27:31] My solo episodes are about five to eight minutes long.

[00:27:34] So they're pretty short.

[00:27:35] And I usually will just like do an essay and read it, like speak it.

[00:27:40] It's actually more performance for me because as a voice actor, I'm used to working from a

[00:27:44] script.

[00:27:45] So for me, that's easier than trying to do stuff off the cuff because I'm better at

[00:27:50] planned spontaneity.

[00:27:53] Right.

[00:27:54] Well, I think a lot of us are.

[00:27:55] I think I'm getting better at myself.

[00:27:56] I do notice that when you try to read a script and if you read it, how it's written, sometimes

[00:28:03] it doesn't flow as quite right as you might think it does.

[00:28:06] Yeah.

[00:28:07] How would you suggest someone fixing that?

[00:28:09] So they don't trip over words when they're trying to read a script?

[00:28:12] Well, it depends.

[00:28:13] Are you the one who wrote it and you?

[00:28:16] Yeah.

[00:28:17] I'd say I wrote it, but some people do write things in the way they talk.

[00:28:20] I know I might do that a lot too.

[00:28:22] It's like talking and typing at the same time and talk it out.

[00:28:25] But when they read it back, they kind of trip over things maybe and things like that.

[00:28:29] But I think it depends on, okay, well, in my profession, when I'm doing a voice for someone

[00:28:35] else, I need to be very conscious of what they've written because this sometimes has gone through

[00:28:40] legal three times and I can't change a word.

[00:28:43] Right.

[00:28:44] So like I've done some stuff for Apple Card, for instance, and you might hear that on Spotify.

[00:28:51] And they are very, very conscious of saying not one word can be changed here because it's

[00:28:58] already gone through.

[00:29:00] Yeah.

[00:29:00] It's already gone through legal.

[00:29:01] I don't know how many times and I cannot change an and or a you or anything.

[00:29:07] I can change nothing.

[00:29:08] So what about the tone for each word though?

[00:29:11] Because you can say something to the script, but it could sound like something totally different.

[00:29:17] Well, yeah.

[00:29:18] I mean, they have a tone that they want me to use that I've used in the past.

[00:29:21] And so I'm matching what I've already done, which is kind of how all of this works really.

[00:29:27] Right, right.

[00:29:28] It depends on what kind of a level of casualness or professionalism they want.

[00:29:36] Right.

[00:29:37] So who are you?

[00:29:39] You know, who is the podcaster that's doing whatever they're speaking?

[00:29:42] Are they really casual and they just want to, you know, say contractions all over the place

[00:29:48] and use a bunch of slang and whatever and even swear?

[00:29:51] I mean, people do that on their podcast.

[00:29:53] It's their podcast.

[00:29:54] Right.

[00:29:54] And, you know, they can do whatever they want.

[00:29:56] Are they a business and they want to be a little more professional and it's like casual,

[00:30:01] but it's business casual.

[00:30:03] You know, there's a difference between business casual and casual casual.

[00:30:09] So, yeah, it just depends on how did someone that I spoke to recently put it this way.

[00:30:15] They said, what kind of shoes do they wear?

[00:30:17] What does that matter?

[00:30:18] Well, if they wear loafers, like shiny loafers, then they're like pretty business oriented, right?

[00:30:27] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:30:28] You know, if they wear running shoes all the time, well, maybe they're a little more casual.

[00:30:32] Well, I wear flip flops all the time.

[00:30:34] So, okay, well, then you're pretty casual, right?

[00:30:37] Yeah, totally.

[00:30:38] So, yeah, it kind of, that gives you the personality maybe a little bit.

[00:30:43] So lean into your personality.

[00:30:45] If you're putting together a script that you're going to read, maybe if you're casual, you're

[00:30:51] using contractions and you're speaking, you're writing like you're speaking.

[00:30:55] So there might be pauses in there.

[00:30:57] There might be thoughts and words that you use all the time, you know?

[00:31:03] Like I say, you know, a lot.

[00:31:05] Oh, really?

[00:31:06] I know this about myself, yes.

[00:31:09] So do you edit those out on the podcast?

[00:31:12] You leave them in?

[00:31:12] I don't edit them out because it's me.

[00:31:16] Yeah, it makes sense.

[00:31:17] On a podcast, I'm not going to worry too much about it.

[00:31:20] And on a podcast, people want your personality.

[00:31:22] They don't just want some completely generic person that they can never get to know.

[00:31:28] Right.

[00:31:29] I totally agree 100%.

[00:31:30] I think that over-editing your podcast can be something people do, especially in the

[00:31:36] beginning.

[00:31:36] I know I did the same thing, not on this show, but on the other show we did.

[00:31:40] I was up all night, just every little gap, every little thing, every little just chip,

[00:31:44] chip, chip, chip, chip, all the way through on a 30-minute episode.

[00:31:47] It's been forever doing it.

[00:31:49] Yeah.

[00:31:49] Before I learned about tools like Descript and other ones and things like that.

[00:31:52] Careful with Descript.

[00:31:54] It works really well in audio, but in video, not so well.

[00:31:58] Yeah.

[00:31:59] Yeah.

[00:31:59] And you can tell, and it's very distracting.

[00:32:02] Well, I thought it was a cool thing that all the YouTubers do it, all the jump cuts and

[00:32:06] stuff like the quick, quick, quick.

[00:32:07] I thought that was a cool thing to do.

[00:32:08] Well, those are things like opus clips that are taking segments of your podcast and putting

[00:32:17] them out for specific reasons to attract attention.

[00:32:22] And they'll take different pieces from different parts of your podcast and smoosh them all together,

[00:32:29] right?

[00:32:29] Even if it's like the beginning and the end, just put them together?

[00:32:31] It wouldn't be the beginning and the end.

[00:32:33] It would probably be somewhere sort of sequential, but not exactly sequential.

[00:32:38] So that's where you're seeing all the jump cuts because it's taking a five-minute segment

[00:32:44] and making it 30 seconds, let's say.

[00:32:46] And I think even on Instagram or TikTok, I've seen ones like that.

[00:32:49] Yeah.

[00:32:49] It does get very jarring.

[00:32:50] Well, because that's where they promote it, right?

[00:32:51] Opus clips is then promoted to all of social media, however you can.

[00:32:55] Yeah.

[00:32:56] And that's just one of them.

[00:32:58] Opus clips is one of the tools that people use using AI to figure out what the best clips

[00:33:05] would be for SEO purposes or attracting attention.

[00:33:09] And it's a great tool.

[00:33:11] Don't get me wrong.

[00:33:12] It gives us an idea of where the segment is that might get the most attention.

[00:33:17] But at the same time, instead of actually using the opus clips, that actual segment, we'll

[00:33:24] take it, we'll start from maybe where opus clips starts and then make a sequence of our

[00:33:30] own.

[00:33:31] And we don't use opus clips for the actual clip.

[00:33:34] We just use it for figuring out where to start it from.

[00:33:38] You know what I mean?

[00:33:39] Yeah.

[00:33:40] Yeah.

[00:33:40] That makes sense.

[00:33:41] Yeah.

[00:33:41] What are your thoughts on the ever fun audiograms to promote your podcast?

[00:33:46] Same concept, but just the audio wavy thing.

[00:33:48] They don't work anymore.

[00:33:50] I hate to say it.

[00:33:51] Did they ever work?

[00:33:52] They did for a little while when, you know, when video wasn't as prevalent as it is now.

[00:33:57] But I think unfortunately video gets more attention than any of those audio files.

[00:34:02] Especially on a social media platform.

[00:34:03] I mean, every social media platform in existence that I know of, you can put video clips on,

[00:34:09] you know?

[00:34:10] Oh yeah, you can.

[00:34:10] Yeah.

[00:34:11] And the problem also is that when you're looking at those video clips, they're usually silent.

[00:34:15] They start off silent.

[00:34:17] Well, I keep my phone on silent and, you know, unless, I don't know who knows what, but yeah,

[00:34:22] it's on silent most of the time.

[00:34:23] I mean, you have to press the little, the little speaker thing to actually hear the audio.

[00:34:28] So.

[00:34:28] Well, that's why they use the, look at the captions and stuff.

[00:34:30] All the funny, cool captions are a big deal.

[00:34:32] Yes.

[00:34:33] Yeah.

[00:34:33] Because that kind of, because at that point you're kind of, not just the audio, you want

[00:34:37] them to see what they're talking about.

[00:34:38] And maybe it's something interesting.

[00:34:39] They'll watch and push play and things like that.

[00:34:42] But I've become kind of numb to a lot of those now.

[00:34:45] To a lot of.

[00:34:46] It is a lot of noise.

[00:34:46] And I mean like visual noise, just as much as audio noise.

[00:34:50] Right.

[00:34:51] You scroll through it.

[00:34:51] There's a lot going on out there.

[00:34:53] Yeah.

[00:34:54] And so I think, I think sometimes they do have little, like almost like YouTube thumbnails.

[00:34:59] They have the ones for the reels and for the TikToks and for those kinds of things.

[00:35:03] And they're getting a lot of crazy graphics in them.

[00:35:06] I think that's what you have to do to stand out in all that noise, whether it's YouTube

[00:35:10] or TikTok or Riverside or Instagram or wherever.

[00:35:12] That's what Opus Clips does, I guess, or the AI tools that are like it.

[00:35:16] That's kind of what they excel at.

[00:35:18] And you can just feed it into the algorithm and have it spit out something that will.

[00:35:24] Get attention.

[00:35:25] But to be honest, at this point, I've seen so many of those similar clips that I tune

[00:35:30] it out.

[00:35:31] That's me too.

[00:35:32] I mean, I'm scrolling through social media and it's a talking head or two talking heads

[00:35:37] or a talking head thing.

[00:35:38] And it's got the captions on.

[00:35:39] I'm like, do I really care what they're talking about?

[00:35:41] Not really.

[00:35:42] Well, it's also like, yeah, it's also like if you're looking at posts and show notes

[00:35:49] and things that have a ton of emoticons in them.

[00:35:52] Emoticons?

[00:35:53] Yeah.

[00:35:53] Or emojis and whatever.

[00:35:55] Oh, okay.

[00:35:55] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:35:56] Yeah.

[00:35:56] Like all of like tons of those, then I automatically think it's AI.

[00:36:02] I don't even bother reading it.

[00:36:03] You're right.

[00:36:04] I noticed I did an episode on that.

[00:36:05] I think if you see any kind of text that's written on any social media platform and it's

[00:36:09] filled with emojis everywhere.

[00:36:11] Yeah.

[00:36:11] AI all day.

[00:36:12] Because I mean, honestly, I've done it too.

[00:36:14] I do it too.

[00:36:14] You know, I'm like, but I own it.

[00:36:16] I'll admit to it.

[00:36:17] Yeah.

[00:36:17] I use ChatGPT.

[00:36:19] It's my assistant.

[00:36:20] I know.

[00:36:20] It works great.

[00:36:21] I love it.

[00:36:22] Copy and paste though.

[00:36:23] Not a great idea.

[00:36:25] I mean, honestly, I'm lucky enough that I have a good friend who is a really great writer

[00:36:31] and he will take the AI generated stuff and make it into show notes that were actually

[00:36:39] written by a human being.

[00:36:41] How does that work?

[00:36:42] So he just like takes it and writes his own words based on those words?

[00:36:45] What he does is he uses it for sections.

[00:36:48] He uses it to summarize some things that give him the summary to work from.

[00:36:53] So it gives him the basis of what the show notes will be about and what maybe the end

[00:37:01] results would be like the conclusions, like this is what we learned in this episode kind

[00:37:06] of deal.

[00:37:07] And it will give really good SEO titles and things like that.

[00:37:11] But as far as generating the actual show notes themselves, that is actually written by a human

[00:37:16] being.

[00:37:17] Well, that's great.

[00:37:18] I mean, I wish I could do that.

[00:37:19] I'm not very good at writing.

[00:37:20] I could type in all that stuff just fine.

[00:37:22] Just the writing stuff.

[00:37:22] If I did not know this friend of mine, I probably wouldn't have them either because it's a pain

[00:37:27] in the ass.

[00:37:28] Well, that's just that.

[00:37:29] It's just like, it's like trying to figure stuff out.

[00:37:31] Like, once I discovered how to use AI and ChatGPT and other services like it, I'm like,

[00:37:37] oh my goodness, this is going to save me so much time.

[00:37:40] And it's going to come up with something.

[00:37:41] But then it's the same thing as the Opus clips that you're passing by and not paying

[00:37:46] attention to because it's just a bunch of noise.

[00:37:49] The show notes become completely useless.

[00:37:51] They just become a bunch of noise.

[00:37:52] How do people actually read show notes?

[00:37:54] Honestly.

[00:37:55] I don't know at this point.

[00:37:56] I suspect it's a pretty low number and most people are using them for SEO.

[00:38:01] But here's the problem.

[00:38:03] SEO is not the same way that it was either because we have ChatGPT and we have people searching

[00:38:09] ChatGPT instead of Google.

[00:38:12] So SEO and search engines are changing too.

[00:38:15] All of this is completely in flux.

[00:38:18] So where will we end up?

[00:38:20] I don't know.

[00:38:21] I'm hoping we'll end up with more humans than AI.

[00:38:24] Well, I think now it's like you're going to stand out.

[00:38:27] You've got to be the one as a human, everything end-to-end human.

[00:38:30] As much as I possibly can.

[00:38:33] You know, I'm not saying AI is bad inherently or that we shouldn't use it at all.

[00:38:37] I'm just saying it's great at sparking imagination, maybe like stopping you from looking at the

[00:38:44] white page, but it's not great for finishing.

[00:38:48] It's not how the creativity should be made.

[00:38:51] Do you know what I mean?

[00:38:52] Okay.

[00:38:52] Yeah.

[00:38:52] I hear you.

[00:38:53] I hear you.

[00:38:54] I mean, I use it.

[00:38:55] I use it.

[00:38:55] And there's a lot of times where I had, you know, most of the time I have to like restructure

[00:38:59] it.

[00:39:00] And I have to like say, no, fix this, take this out, change it with this, add that.

[00:39:04] No, I don't mean this.

[00:39:06] I mean that.

[00:39:07] And I get to play with it quite a bit and get things tuned just right.

[00:39:11] Yeah.

[00:39:11] And I know some people swear that like, oh, all the time you spent doing that, you could

[00:39:15] have written yourself.

[00:39:16] If you wanted to.

[00:39:18] I mean, I get why people don't.

[00:39:19] I do.

[00:39:20] I understand why people don't.

[00:39:21] I'm just saying you're either going to be a good writer or you're going to be a good

[00:39:28] prompt engineer.

[00:39:29] I think maybe I'm working on the prompt engineer myself.

[00:39:32] I think I'm working for you.

[00:39:32] That's fine.

[00:39:33] That's a useful skill to have.

[00:39:34] But be aware that you may still, once you get that output, have to modify it a little.

[00:39:40] Of course.

[00:39:41] You're always playing with it.

[00:39:42] That's the beauty of these things is that you can, at least on ChatGPT, you can keep

[00:39:45] plugging in different commands until you find something that looks just right.

[00:39:49] Or you can say, that's horrible.

[00:39:51] Let's start over.

[00:39:51] Yeah.

[00:39:52] Let's do it all over.

[00:39:52] I've done that too.

[00:39:53] And people spend hours on this.

[00:39:55] And I mean, it's just, it's the, it's the HTML code of, you know, when the internet was

[00:40:03] new.

[00:40:03] I mean, everything old is new again.

[00:40:07] Right.

[00:40:08] Right.

[00:40:08] And I think a lot of, so many, so many, like I'm on AppSumo a lot and so many different

[00:40:13] apps pop down the email and I swear they're all like ChatGPT infused or based.

[00:40:18] It's something.

[00:40:18] I've seen AppSumo.

[00:40:19] Yeah.

[00:40:19] There's a ton of stuff there.

[00:40:21] Yeah.

[00:40:21] It's all, or any new thing that pops up, it's like somehow got ChatGPT.

[00:40:27] I'm not a coder.

[00:40:28] I don't know how this stuff works, but somehow they got it.

[00:40:30] They're either using their software or they're using something.

[00:40:33] It's all connected somehow.

[00:40:34] It seems like.

[00:40:35] And, and, and that's why I was like, well, I'll just use ChatGPT if I'm buying these.

[00:40:39] Cause I can, I can use ChatGPT quite a, quite a few ways.

[00:40:42] And I actually started using the custom GPTs they have in there.

[00:40:46] Okay.

[00:40:46] Yeah.

[00:40:47] Where, where it's like, you can use the right.

[00:40:48] I just did one the other day, two nights ago on the election on the outcome.

[00:40:54] It's like a kind of simulator kind of thing about the election.

[00:40:56] Yeah.

[00:40:57] And you can prompt it, that kind of stuff and find out, you know, what the odds are and

[00:41:00] different things like that.

[00:41:01] So there's lots of different things you can use it for.

[00:41:03] The issue there is where is its sources?

[00:41:07] And yeah, well, that's where I'm worried about, you know, depending on it.

[00:41:13] Right.

[00:41:14] Oh, of course.

[00:41:14] Of course.

[00:41:14] You know, I mean, it's just like Googling anything.

[00:41:17] Remember Google back in the day when you first got into Google, you're just like, you know,

[00:41:20] how do I, how do I make a tree house or whatever, you know?

[00:41:23] Now you ask YouTube.

[00:41:25] Yeah.

[00:41:26] That's the thing.

[00:41:26] Well, I think what Google does, it just shows you YouTube stuff because it's all the

[00:41:30] same thing.

[00:41:30] It's the same company.

[00:41:31] It's like, here, check out these other things and all of that.

[00:41:34] YouTube is great.

[00:41:34] I love, I love YouTube.

[00:41:36] But I think I've seen personally that I think an audio podcast in a long form content does

[00:41:42] better, I think, than, than a YouTube video long form does.

[00:41:46] They are very different audiences.

[00:41:49] Okay.

[00:41:50] So the people who are on YouTube are there for the video.

[00:41:53] The people who are on, you know, Spotify or Apple podcasts are there for the audio specifically.

[00:42:00] And they're very different audiences.

[00:42:02] The reason that I am on YouTube, the reason that I do video is for discovery.

[00:42:06] Right.

[00:42:07] So, so it's great to have a video in order to get people to pay attention, to want to hear

[00:42:15] more or, you know, maybe subscribe to your YouTube channel.

[00:42:18] You never know.

[00:42:19] But will those people see, it's still up in the air, right?

[00:42:24] Will those people go and search out the audio only version?

[00:42:27] I don't know.

[00:42:29] I don't know.

[00:42:30] Yeah.

[00:42:30] That's one thing someone said that, okay, YouTube algorithm, algorithm all day.

[00:42:34] There's an algorithm in there that everyone's trying to cheat.

[00:42:36] You get the cheat code for and trying to figure out how to boost their stuff.

[00:42:39] There are no cheat codes.

[00:42:40] There's content.

[00:42:41] There's content that is popular.

[00:42:43] That's what the cheat code is.

[00:42:44] Right.

[00:42:45] And you got to figure out what's popular.

[00:42:46] Yeah.

[00:42:47] There's YouTube videos that tell you how to, how to figure this stuff out and all the

[00:42:49] different things.

[00:42:50] And, and, but the problem is with an audio podcast, like Apple, Spotify, wherever, there

[00:42:56] is no algorithm.

[00:42:57] There's no algorithm.

[00:42:58] You are subscribed to the channel on whatever app you have and you, you know, and then it

[00:43:02] downloads your phone and you listen as you go.

[00:43:04] But how can a podcaster leverage or market their show with knowing that there's no algorithm

[00:43:11] for the podcast?

[00:43:12] There are a few ways out there.

[00:43:14] If you're willing to spend a few bucks, there's Buzzsprout's way of promoting it on other podcasts.

[00:43:21] It's about, I think, a minimum of $250 and it'll last however long you get of impressions.

[00:43:29] And, and you would be actually advertising on a bunch of podcasts in their network that

[00:43:34] have certain criteria.

[00:43:35] So, you know, you decide what that criteria is and then those podcasts accept or don't

[00:43:42] accept your ad depending on whether they want it or not.

[00:43:46] And you are promoted on their network in those podcasts.

[00:43:51] So I would say other podcasts are the best way to promote your podcast.

[00:43:56] So being on other podcasts is a great way to promote your podcast.

[00:44:02] Yeah.

[00:44:02] Ta-da!

[00:44:03] Here you are.

[00:44:04] Yeah.

[00:44:05] That's how you do it.

[00:44:06] That's how you do it.

[00:44:07] But what about the promo swaps?

[00:44:08] That used to be a big thing maybe a few years ago.

[00:44:10] I heard everyone's like, yeah, you got any promos we can swap?

[00:44:13] We'll play your promo on my show and your promo on my show.

[00:44:15] And it's kind of the same thing-ish.

[00:44:17] I think it can work if your shows are similar.

[00:44:20] Okay.

[00:44:20] The problem, you know, the problem is that I think a lot of people need to be a little

[00:44:24] more picky about the promos that they put on their podcast because it's so different.

[00:44:31] If it's completely different, if it's something that has absolutely nothing to do with what

[00:44:36] your podcast is about, then those people aren't going to be interested anyway.

[00:44:39] And it's a waste of your time.

[00:44:40] Right.

[00:44:40] And the person you did the promo swap with, right?

[00:44:42] I've had some horrible promo swaps.

[00:44:44] Oh my goodness.

[00:44:45] It's like, you're talking mid 2020 when everybody and their mother had a podcast, right?

[00:44:50] I mean, some of them were so low quality, horrible production.

[00:44:53] And it was like 15 minutes to just random music.

[00:44:56] And then it comes on.

[00:44:57] Hey, this is Joe with the Joe show.

[00:44:59] Oh no, no, no, no.

[00:45:01] Find me whenever podcasts be found.

[00:45:03] What?

[00:45:04] And we were nice.

[00:45:05] We put it on there.

[00:45:06] We put it on our show as a promo swap, whatever.

[00:45:09] 30 seconds.

[00:45:10] This should be an ad.

[00:45:12] 30 seconds.

[00:45:13] Right.

[00:45:14] Things like that.

[00:45:14] Give me a minute.

[00:45:15] I don't think you can even get past a minute and have people pay attention.

[00:45:18] It's just not going to happen.

[00:45:20] But also, like I said, it's just not useful to them if what their topic is or what they're

[00:45:27] talking about has nothing to do with your topic, because then the people who are on your

[00:45:30] podcast just aren't going to be interested.

[00:45:33] Right, right.

[00:45:34] And what do you think about the well-polished teaser that they promote?

[00:45:39] But it's a lot of production, a lot of fluff, but not a lot of substance.

[00:45:44] You know what I'm saying?

[00:45:45] Or it's maybe some sound effects and music, and maybe they come in and say, Joe Show,

[00:45:50] follow us at joeshow.com or whatever.

[00:45:52] But it's a lot of production pizzazz, but there's no actual content.

[00:45:55] You know what I'm saying?

[00:45:56] If they don't explain what the show is about and why someone on your show might be interested

[00:46:01] in listening to it, then it's not worth promoting.

[00:46:04] Right.

[00:46:05] Right.

[00:46:05] Especially spend money on it too.

[00:46:07] Yeah, that's the point.

[00:46:09] I mean, whether it has great production or not, you don't need to...

[00:46:14] Like, okay, I am not a production guru, okay?

[00:46:18] I do not...

[00:46:19] I mean, I work in audio.

[00:46:21] I do that.

[00:46:22] But I only know enough to be dangerous.

[00:46:25] Like when it comes right down to it, really.

[00:46:27] I hire other people to do that for me.

[00:46:30] Or I give it to a client who already knows how to do that, and that's what they want.

[00:46:34] They just want the raw audio from me, minimal editing.

[00:46:37] And I can edit a little bit.

[00:46:40] I know enough, like I said, to get them what they need.

[00:46:43] But production?

[00:46:44] That is not my thing.

[00:46:46] I have managed to put together a 30-second spot that sounds pretty damn good and has the

[00:46:52] information that people need.

[00:46:54] And it's basically just the music and the voiceover and mixing them together so that

[00:47:00] the levels are right.

[00:47:01] Like, that's it.

[00:47:02] There's not much more to it.

[00:47:04] Right.

[00:47:05] And hit all the key points.

[00:47:06] So if you're going to do a promo...

[00:47:08] If you're going to do a promo spot for somebody as a podcaster, what are maybe the three to

[00:47:12] four things you absolutely have to hit within that promo spot?

[00:47:16] I would say that you definitely need to let the listener know what's in it for them.

[00:47:20] Okay.

[00:47:21] You know, why are they wanting to listen?

[00:47:23] You need to let them know the topic.

[00:47:26] You may want to have the person doing the promo being the host because then they'll actually

[00:47:31] know what they're going to get.

[00:47:33] And you may actually want to have the music that they use in the podcast on that promo.

[00:47:39] Interesting.

[00:47:40] So that they're kind of getting a sample of what that podcast would sound like by the promo.

[00:47:46] Okay.

[00:47:46] That makes sense.

[00:47:47] Yeah.

[00:47:48] That makes sense a lot.

[00:47:49] Yeah.

[00:47:50] Yeah.

[00:47:50] But I haven't done a promo swap in forever.

[00:47:53] And I think the better way is to be on shows like this is probably the better way to do

[00:47:58] it than a promo swap.

[00:47:59] But what are your thoughts on actually...

[00:48:01] Well, I've never done this, but the actual show swap where you do feed swap.

[00:48:07] What do they call it?

[00:48:07] Feed swap?

[00:48:08] Show swap?

[00:48:08] Yeah.

[00:48:08] Whatever it's called.

[00:48:09] I don't like it because it's kind of a bait and switch.

[00:48:12] I'm not a big fan.

[00:48:14] Yeah.

[00:48:14] Your audience is waiting for you.

[00:48:18] And what I have done, and I did this with a woman named Elaine Appleton Grant who has

[00:48:26] a lovely, fantastic podcast about being a better host.

[00:48:33] And I believe it's called Sound Awareness.

[00:48:39] I'd have to look it up.

[00:48:41] My goodness.

[00:48:42] And I probably can't find it if you just give me a moment here.

[00:48:48] There we are.

[00:48:49] Sound Judgment.

[00:48:50] That's what it's called.

[00:48:51] It sounds horrible.

[00:48:52] Sound Judgment.

[00:48:52] Sound Judgment.

[00:48:54] Well, because what she's doing specifically is she's talking about what she calls hostiness.

[00:49:01] And she got this from someone else, so it wasn't something...

[00:49:04] And she gives credit where credit is due.

[00:49:07] But it's all about how being a good host draws people into your podcast.

[00:49:14] Interesting.

[00:49:14] And she's a production...

[00:49:15] She produces podcasts all the time.

[00:49:17] So she and I did a 60-minute interview where we both released it on our respective shows

[00:49:25] the same way.

[00:49:27] I mean, she did...

[00:49:28] We had the same basic audio, and then she put her skin on it, and I put my skin on it.

[00:49:35] Nice.

[00:49:36] And then we released it together, and we did it in two parts.

[00:49:39] So there's a 30-minute spot and a 30-minute part and a 30-minute part.

[00:49:45] So it's part one and part two.

[00:49:47] And I do that all the time with all of my episodes because I just feel it gives me a little bit

[00:49:53] of buffer zone so that I don't have to be interviewing so many people, which means I can

[00:49:59] be pickier with the people I have on the show.

[00:50:01] Right.

[00:50:02] And my podcast is specifically about the power of sound, and so it fit with her topic really

[00:50:10] well.

[00:50:10] And I had interviewed her previously on my podcast, so we knew sort of what each other

[00:50:17] was about.

[00:50:18] So that, in a way, worked really well.

[00:50:21] And it was each of us being involved in that episode.

[00:50:25] It wasn't just changing the episode to be mine on hers.

[00:50:30] Right.

[00:50:30] Do you know what I mean?

[00:50:31] Right.

[00:50:32] Yeah.

[00:50:32] Like the full swap.

[00:50:33] So that worked really well.

[00:50:34] And if you can find a synergy with someone that way, that's a great way to do it, I would

[00:50:38] think.

[00:50:39] Yeah.

[00:50:39] I thought about that too, like sharing the interview out with the guests in both shows,

[00:50:45] do it at the same time kind of a thing.

[00:50:47] Yeah.

[00:50:47] We kind of interviewed each other.

[00:50:49] It was an interesting way to do things.

[00:50:51] Right.

[00:50:52] Right.

[00:50:52] Right.

[00:50:52] Well, I was on a show once, and I was being interviewed, talking about my stuff, and we're talking

[00:50:59] about a topic.

[00:50:59] And I even asked him if I can take that interview we did, that audio.

[00:51:04] Can I put it on my show?

[00:51:06] Sure.

[00:51:06] Go right ahead.

[00:51:07] And the second I did that, he's blowing me up.

[00:51:10] What are you doing?

[00:51:10] I said, you told me I can do that.

[00:51:13] And he said, no, I thought you were gonna do a few clips of it, not the whole thing.

[00:51:17] Well, I told you that.

[00:51:18] And he said, you know what?

[00:51:20] Fine.

[00:51:20] I'll take it down.

[00:51:21] Whatever.

[00:51:22] Don't get your panties in a bunch.

[00:51:23] Okay.

[00:51:23] Calm down.

[00:51:24] You know?

[00:51:25] And so I did that.

[00:51:26] But the thing kind of irritated me was that like, he was afraid that if I put the same interview

[00:51:33] on my show, it's gonna take away the interview that's on his show.

[00:51:38] Even though it's the same interview, even though it's my interview with me.

[00:51:40] I don't get that.

[00:51:41] I don't get that at all.

[00:51:42] I didn't get that either.

[00:51:43] So when you say that, you always both release the same thing on two separate channels.

[00:51:47] Maybe think about that, thinking that one person might be like jealous of the other

[00:51:52] person, thinking, well, if they're gonna put it on their channel, there's no reason

[00:51:56] they're gonna watch it on my channel.

[00:51:57] Kind of a thing, you know?

[00:51:58] The idea would be that you would exchange with someone whose audience is different than your

[00:52:03] own.

[00:52:04] Otherwise, it's really not all that useful, is it?

[00:52:07] Right.

[00:52:08] Right.

[00:52:09] Right.

[00:52:10] Yeah.

[00:52:11] So, but I think it could have been just like a jealousy thing or maybe like a-

[00:52:16] Maybe a misunderstanding.

[00:52:17] Yeah.

[00:52:18] I don't know.

[00:52:18] Something like that.

[00:52:19] So I try to stay clear from that kind of stuff.

[00:52:21] So, I mean, I love audio podcasting.

[00:52:24] I'm working a little bit on YouTube stuff.

[00:52:25] I've done YouTube since forever and ago, but when I first did YouTube years and years

[00:52:30] and years, I'm talking like 2008, a long time ago, there was none of this kind of stuff.

[00:52:36] Right?

[00:52:36] So for me, when I got into podcasting, it never occurred to me that it could be like a video

[00:52:42] chat style thing.

[00:52:43] I always assumed it was just like radio.

[00:52:46] So my love for radio, my love for audio came first when I jumped into podcasting.

[00:52:50] I just did it in the tone of radio and with microphones and headphones and no cameras at

[00:52:56] all, just recording it, you know, and didn't even think about it.

[00:52:59] That's how I started too.

[00:53:00] Yeah.

[00:53:01] So now everything's like video, everything's video, video everywhere.

[00:53:04] But what are your thoughts on your podcast having to have video?

[00:53:07] Because some people say you have to have video, but I don't know if you do.

[00:53:10] What do you think?

[00:53:10] I don't think you have to have full video, put it that way.

[00:53:14] I think you don't need to have the whole show in video format, but if you have snippets,

[00:53:20] that is at least something that you can promote on social media.

[00:53:24] So I would suggest if you're hesitant about video, record it in video and just take bits

[00:53:33] and pieces of it and use it for promo and the rest don't even worry about.

[00:53:38] And the thing about YouTube, I'm kind of going against that grain because I mean, I honestly,

[00:53:46] I don't really care.

[00:53:47] I just want to have the videos up there for people to watch if they want to watch.

[00:53:51] But most people are not going to watch the whole video.

[00:53:54] Most people are going to watch like, you know, 20% of it, right?

[00:53:59] Yeah.

[00:53:59] So if you look at your analytics and say that, yeah, right.

[00:54:03] And the longer the video, the less of a chance that they're going to watch the whole thing.

[00:54:08] So you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to YouTube.

[00:54:12] If you're putting hugely long form content on there that people aren't watching,

[00:54:16] because then YouTube's algorithm doesn't like you.

[00:54:19] I'm doing it anyway.

[00:54:21] I am totally guilty of this.

[00:54:23] Yeah, me too.

[00:54:23] I think it's great for discoverability.

[00:54:25] Yeah.

[00:54:26] I think even with my static image audio podcast, putting that on YouTube, at least it's there.

[00:54:32] And I try to direct people to the podcast itself, but they follow along, they follow along.

[00:54:36] But the way I look at like this as a while, a long time ago, when the other podcast we were doing,

[00:54:42] we were putting it on automatically shooting it over to YouTube, you know?

[00:54:46] And I was asking my mom, cause she listens to our show regularly.

[00:54:48] And she would say something.

[00:54:49] I asked her like, how'd you like the episode?

[00:54:51] Oh, it was great.

[00:54:51] Blah, blah, blah.

[00:54:51] I said, I have that curiosity.

[00:54:53] Where are you listening to the podcast?

[00:54:54] On YouTube.

[00:54:55] I'm like, what?

[00:54:57] I said, well, it's just easier.

[00:54:58] Cause you know, I think a lot of people use YouTube for everything.

[00:55:02] And if your podcast is there, so be it.

[00:55:04] It's just there.

[00:55:05] It just makes it easier for them.

[00:55:07] And that's why I always say when I post my podcast, my audio podcast on YouTube,

[00:55:10] and I post it there, I'll say, if YouTube is more your thing, you know, it's there for you.

[00:55:17] You know, go right ahead.

[00:55:18] Cause I know it gets complicated with all the millions of different apps out there.

[00:55:22] And you know, what phone you can have and different things and all that.

[00:55:25] So I try to make it as simple as possible for the listener.

[00:55:30] Yeah.

[00:55:31] I think it's just easier for people as far as the audio is concerned to listen to things during their day,

[00:55:37] rather than having to watch a video.

[00:55:39] That's true.

[00:55:40] Because video you need to focus on.

[00:55:42] There are some people who really like that and they will set aside time to do it and all the power to them.

[00:55:46] That's perfectly fine.

[00:55:47] But if you're actually a podcast fan, if you really like podcasts,

[00:55:52] you're probably listening because it fits better into your day.

[00:55:57] Yeah, definitely.

[00:55:58] I mean, when I'm on the road, I'm driving around, I'm doing things and doing dishes and things like that.

[00:56:02] I'm always listening to podcasts.

[00:56:04] Exactly.

[00:56:04] It fills in the spaces in your life.

[00:56:07] It doesn't have to be completely focused on like a video does.

[00:56:12] Unless you're really like showing me how to like take apart an engine or something.

[00:56:16] That's a different thing.

[00:56:17] It's totally different.

[00:56:19] Demonstrations.

[00:56:20] Yes.

[00:56:20] You know, yeah.

[00:56:21] And that was the videos that I was watching and kind of creating years and years ago was like,

[00:56:27] like here we're showing you this kind of stuff, like showing you things.

[00:56:30] And that's why when I jumped into podcast, it never occurred to me.

[00:56:33] Like I'm thinking like, what is there to show you?

[00:56:35] We're just in this room here.

[00:56:36] What do we show?

[00:56:37] What do we need to bring video into this?

[00:56:39] Yeah.

[00:56:39] You know, that's why I always thought.

[00:56:41] But I think as COVID came in and everyone's using Zoom and Riverside and things like that,

[00:56:45] video became more of the norm.

[00:56:47] And I think also, sad to say, is a lot of bad audio became the norm too.

[00:56:51] Oh, yeah.

[00:56:52] With whatever had laptop mics and things like that.

[00:56:55] And I suggest anybody getting any kind of microphone if they want to try to do anything like this.

[00:57:01] But I know sometimes you got to deal with what you got to deal with.

[00:57:04] You know, people have horrible audio.

[00:57:05] They have horrible audio.

[00:57:06] Just a couple of tips for people really quickly.

[00:57:10] Have some kind of headphones or earbuds or something and not iPods, like not the earbuds that are Bluetooth.

[00:57:20] Because the problem with those is that they're constantly trying to connect with the computer.

[00:57:25] And if that's what you're using for both your hearing and your microphone, your audio gets distorted and awful.

[00:57:32] And it's not a good thing.

[00:57:34] Yeah.

[00:57:34] No way.

[00:57:35] It's really not a good thing.

[00:57:36] I've had this happen to my podcast guests a couple of times.

[00:57:39] Oh, yeah.

[00:57:40] So I've learned the hard way.

[00:57:41] Yeah.

[00:57:42] Do not use those.

[00:57:42] Well, they actually jingle.

[00:57:43] These things, they actually jingle on your shirt with a microphone.

[00:57:46] It's fine.

[00:57:46] It's totally fine because they're wired in.

[00:57:49] So then the system isn't worried about connecting all the time.

[00:57:53] Right, right.

[00:57:53] It doesn't ruin things.

[00:57:55] Right.

[00:57:55] But yeah.

[00:57:56] So I think it's very important for people to have a separate microphone, but it's almost

[00:58:02] more important for them to have earbuds or headphones that are actually workable.

[00:58:07] Because in a system like this, you want to be able to turn off the echo cancellation.

[00:58:14] Because if you don't turn off the echo cancellation, people can't talk over each other.

[00:58:19] It's less of a seamless integration of each speaker.

[00:58:25] Yeah.

[00:58:26] Yeah.

[00:58:26] This feels natural.

[00:58:28] You know, when we started doing podcasting with Clean Feeble, you're using that forever.

[00:58:32] I used it for my clients, but it's audio only.

[00:58:35] But the nice thing is that it's very, very high quality.

[00:58:38] And there's that talk over, you know, ish.

[00:58:40] You can go back and forth, talk about arguments and go back and forth and stuff, which makes

[00:58:44] it feel as if you're in the same room.

[00:58:47] That's one thing we always told everybody with the other podcast was that we bring a guest

[00:58:50] in here and there's like audio and you're kind of freaking them out.

[00:58:52] But Riverside is really good for that.

[00:58:55] And the Riverside audio and video is actually really high quality.

[00:58:59] And they're saving it to your local computer before it gets finalized and then forwarded

[00:59:06] to wherever it gets stored.

[00:59:08] So it's not like what we're seeing right now is exactly the quality that you're going to

[00:59:13] get when you get that file.

[00:59:15] You're getting the best quality file that you possibly can.

[00:59:18] Spoken like a true Riverside promo.

[00:59:21] I love it.

[00:59:22] I mean, I use it all the time.

[00:59:24] So I love it.

[00:59:25] Yeah.

[00:59:25] Yeah.

[00:59:26] Yeah.

[00:59:26] I think Riverside is great.

[00:59:27] It's a fantastic product.

[00:59:29] I think a lot of people are serious about the audio and the video quality should use it.

[00:59:34] But I think some people just know how to use Zoom and that's all they stick with because

[00:59:38] it works for me and blah, blah, blah.

[00:59:39] Zoom is getting better all the time.

[00:59:41] I'm not going to poo-poo on Zoom.

[00:59:43] I think they're doing a good job.

[00:59:45] So yeah.

[00:59:45] Yeah.

[00:59:46] I mean, as I said, it's all great.

[00:59:48] It's all fantastic, I think.

[00:59:49] But you need to really know your gear as a podcaster and content creator because some

[00:59:53] people jump in and like, what's this button do?

[00:59:55] I don't even know.

[00:59:55] What's, you know, what's this even recording?

[00:59:57] The Zoom setting that is the echo cancellation is the audio for musicians.

[01:00:04] I saw that.

[01:00:05] Yes.

[01:00:05] Yeah.

[01:00:06] So if you click that on, I believe that or, yeah, I'm pretty sure if you put that on,

[01:00:12] then it takes off the echo cancellation.

[01:00:15] Okay.

[01:00:16] Yes.

[01:00:16] Because it's more natural and it's probably unfiltered, uncompressed.

[01:00:19] One thing I heard that Zoom compresses the audio quite a bit.

[01:00:22] They still do that again?

[01:00:23] Yeah.

[01:00:24] Yeah.

[01:00:24] I mean, I don't know if it still does that.

[01:00:26] It's improving all the time.

[01:00:28] So I, you know, it's hard to say.

[01:00:30] Well, Jody, this has been fantastic.

[01:00:33] Thank you so much for stopping by today.

[01:00:34] I really appreciate you and your time and all your amazing stuff you do for podcasting

[01:00:38] and audio stuff in general.

[01:00:40] Oh my gosh.

[01:00:40] It's amazing.

[01:00:41] Where can everybody find out all about you and all your wonderful stuff?

[01:00:44] Well, my website is at voiceoversandvocals.com.

[01:00:48] If anyone happens to need voiceovers for whatever, you can get in touch with me there.

[01:00:53] And I do a lot of intros and outros for podcasts.

[01:00:55] So happy to help if someone needs that.

[01:00:58] Also the podcast audio branding, where I talk about the power of sound and how it influences

[01:01:03] us, that is at audiobrandingpodcast.com.

[01:01:08] Wow.

[01:01:09] That was incredible.

[01:01:10] I want to thank Jody once again for stopping by today.

[01:01:13] What a great conversation.

[01:01:15] We learned so many cool things about how to be a voiceover actor, what it means to deliver

[01:01:20] amazing sound and all about great podcasting.

[01:01:23] And so if you want to check out her podcast, tune into audio branding, a link below in the

[01:01:29] show notes for even more amazing advice about audio and the sound and the power of your voice.

[01:01:35] Make sure your voice is heard.

[01:01:38] Make sure your message is delivered and you keep on making your amazing podcast.

[01:01:42] And I'll catch you later.

[01:01:44] And until then, happy podcasting.