188 | Why More Listeners Won't Fix Your Podcast – Here's What Will

[00:00:00] Think getting more listeners will fix your podcast? Think again. If your show isn't worth listening to, no amount of promotion will save it. Let's talk about what really makes a podcast grow. Spoiler alert, it's not marketing.

[00:00:23] Sound matters. Be heard. Welcome to the podcast where you get exclusive behind the scenes tips to make your own show sound truly spectacular. This is Podtastic Audio. What's happening? How are you doing today? Thank you so much for being here. I am Chris and I truly do mean that from the bottom of my heart. Thank you.

[00:00:51] I create these shows for you so you can make an amazing show for your audience. That's what it's all about. And one super cool tool to help you make that happen is Riverside.fm. Today's episode is brought to you by Riverside because before you promote your podcast, you need to create a great one. Too many podcasters focus on marketing before they focus on making a show worth listening to. The real key? Quality content.

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[00:01:44] And with multi-click editing, you can fine-tune each voice to sound its best. So before you stress out about promotion, make your podcast sound amazing. Try Riverside right now for free. And when you're ready to upgrade, use my code PODTASTIC for an extra 15% off any paid plan. Start with a great podcast and Riverside will help you make that happen.

[00:02:12] I have noticed a serious problem in the indie podcaster community. And would you like to guess what that is? Well, you probably already know from the title and description of the episode, but here we go. The problem is, is that too many indie podcasters are trying to grow their show too quickly.

[00:02:33] Or they are focusing too much on downloads and the audience size and how many downloads do I get? How many views do I get? Look at all the downloads I get. You see it all the time. Everybody posts, you know, their new accomplishments. Like I get this many downloads this month or I'm this many downloads away from hitting my total goal of whatever number that could be. You know, things like that.

[00:02:54] And if you were to look up in any forum, any questionnaire about podcasting, about podcasters within podcasting, the number one question that comes up is how do I grow my show? How do I make my audience like massive? What are the growth strategies? And the problem is, is that there are no really quick growth strategies other than paying for fake followers and fake downloads.

[00:03:21] There's plenty of those marketers out there. I know you've seen them. They hit you up on social media. Maybe they send you an email saying, hey, we'll promise to guarantee that we will get you, you know, 100,000 downloads. Just pay us X amount of dollars, whatever. Those are all fake. It's all fake bots. It's not real people.

[00:03:40] So that doesn't really count. But what I'm saying is that indie podcasters focus on how can I grow my show as quickly as possible without first considering, is your show any good in the first place? I know it sounds kind of obvious. Like why would you promote a show if it was no good? Who told you it was good? Did mom say it was okay? Did your brother say it was cool?

[00:04:07] Maybe you played your show in front of your dog and your dog didn't get upset. So maybe it's a good show. I don't know. But if you think that more promotion on your show is going to equal more listeners, which would only be true if the content was great in the first place. And I've seen a lot of these indie podcasters do this. They actually will try to grow their show through promotion as soon as they like hit the ground running.

[00:04:35] Like episode one, promote, promote, promote. Episode two, they have like five episodes under their belt. And they didn't really check to see if these episodes were any good. They figured they're done. They've recorded five of them. So they must be a pro at podcasting by now, right? And then they pay all this money to get it promoted. So what they think what happens is that this actually kind of backfires on them because it does not bring in listeners that want to stay long term.

[00:05:01] And it wastes your time and money on marketing efforts that don't even convert to new listeners, which obviously leads to big frustration in the podcast or space because, you know, they obviously burn out and then they pod fade. They say, well, this is garbage because, you know, I spent all this money on marketing my show, promoting my show everywhere. And then like I see, you know, quick downloads for that one or two episodes. But then the next one and the next one, it just falls back to flat nothing. Nobody's sticking around.

[00:05:29] Well, maybe instead of saying, how do I get more listeners? Ask yourself, how do I make my podcast irresistible? It would be as if you launched a brand new restaurant. Awesome. Great. But instead of improving on the food, you spent all of your money on ads and marketing and commercials. You know, people will come in, you know, they'll try your food and they don't return.

[00:05:58] You know, wouldn't it be smarter to perfect the menu first? And yet podcasting is the exact same way. So if you are a podcaster who's chasing numbers way too early in the game and you feel a certain level of frustration, well, this might be why. You see, you probably put in the work, but the numbers don't match your effort.

[00:06:21] I mean, who hasn't sat through maybe a three-hour podcast interview with a buddy of yours talking about inside jokes and funsy things. And you realize that this is not getting the downloads it should. Why are we not getting, you know, hundreds if not thousands of downloads on this cool piece of thing we put together? Oh, I know it's probably because we're not promoting it as much. So let's put it out there. Let's pay to promote this thing. Let's do whatever we can to promote this thing we made because we think it's super cool.

[00:06:51] But it may not be as cool as you think it is. You need to start questioning if your podcast is even worth it. Now, I know that sounds harsh. I'm sorry if it does. I'm not trying to bash your podcast at all. This is not my intent today. My intent is to get you to realize that focusing on numbers is probably not as important as focusing on a great show.

[00:07:18] Okay, let's say you try some of these promotion strategies. You pay for these different things here and there. Maybe even marketing your show here and there. And what happens is that listeners may try your podcast just once because they were led to it through a promotion, through an ad of some sort. And they end up leaving because either your audio is bad or the content is messy or the delivery itself is quite boring.

[00:07:44] And then you start to question, well, what did I do wrong in the promotion process? Because obviously, I did something right. I promoted it. I saw that quick little spike in numbers. I saw the numbers go up. So what the hell is going on? What is wrong with this thing? You see, the problem is that you need to shift your mindset. Growth is the result of a great podcast, not the cause of it.

[00:08:09] You know, sometimes we need to put ourselves in the ears of a listener. Imagine that you are a listener of a brand new podcast. You stumbled upon a brand new podcast and it looks like a topic that you love, but the audio is too echoey, sounding like crap, hot garbage. The host rambles on without any structure about every little thing going on their day, maybe things that are unrelated to the content at all.

[00:08:38] And maybe the intro is too long and boring. Now, the question is this. Would you keep listening? You know, most people won't. Okay, Chris, I hear you. I hear you. So what do we do to fix this? I get it. Okay, great. Here we go. To fix this, it's very simple. And most podcasters refuse to do this. So easy. Get feedback first. Refine your show.

[00:09:07] Then you can grow. I know. Sounds weird, huh? And you can fix your show in three easy steps. Yeah. One, two, three. Step number one. Accept that your podcast can improve. I do this all the time. With each and every episode I create, I'm always thinking, how can I make this one better than the last one? And I know it doesn't always happen. And there are winners and losers. I get it.

[00:09:35] But every single time I press record on a podcast, I'm always thinking of ways to make sure I can deliver the best valuable content directly to you. You know, even the big podcasters improve over time. Episode one is going to be way different than episode 101. You're going to improve so much. So I know that some podcasters don't even make it past episode 10.

[00:10:02] But don't be afraid to refine your work. Now, moving on to step number two. Now, this has got to be the very absolute worst one that any podcasters will not do. Even if they try to, they really won't do this. And that is step number two, seek honest feedback. And I don't know what it is. Actually, I do know what it is. Indie podcasters put their heart and soul into a podcast episode.

[00:10:31] But nobody, nobody wants to know or hear that the thing they created is hot garbage. Nobody wants to hear that. And that's why when people ask for feedback, they'll ask for reviews. It's, hey, check out my podcast. Come check it out. What they're really saying is, you like my show too, right? It's pretty good too, right? Say yes. Yeah, say yes, it's good. Right. Yes. That's what they want. They don't want any real honest feedback.

[00:11:01] Because if they did, people could get brutally honest. And I have done that myself. I've given reviews to shows and I said, I was fairly nice, but I've said some things that were probably, at least could have been taken a little too harsh maybe. And that's what got me realizing that nobody wants reviews. Even if they say they do, oh, please check out my podcast. Let me know what you think. Nobody really wants to hear that.

[00:11:31] They don't want to know that at all. So the problem is maybe to fix this, you probably should ask the people that are already listening to your show. And if you have a very small audience, getting anybody from that audience to actually write you and give you some honest feedback might be tricky, might be hard. So maybe, just maybe ask somebody that has no skin in the game. Not a family member. Not a family member.

[00:12:00] Run across somebody and be willing to accept the honest feedback they potentially could give you. It may be good. It may be bad. But how can you improve your podcast and make a great podcast if you do not know what's working or not working? And I know it's a hard pill to swallow. I suffer from myself. I don't like to hear criticism of the thing that I created. Nobody does. We don't.

[00:12:30] But if I knew that one thing I did wasn't resonating at all and another thing was, that I easily could flip-flop and make more of the thing that is working work more and put it more into the podcast and throw away the thing it isn't.

[00:12:47] And that moves us into step number three, which is now that you have some good advice, now that you have some honest feedback, now that you have some things to work on, well, maybe start working on those things and improve the core elements of your show. Let's start off with a simple one, the easiest one of all, which is better audio quality.

[00:13:12] You know, most podcasts that have, at least the good ones that I've heard and probably the good ones out there, the ones that you would consider, quote, a good podcast, have one thing in common, and that is clear sound quality. You're not going to find a really, you know, good, like top of the charts in Apple, really good podcast with horrible, crappy audio quality.

[00:13:38] Well, one is probably because they fly all their guests in person into their custom studio. They have the best gear, the best microphones, and it's all recorded professionally. Us indie podcasters don't have that luxury. So we want to make sure that our audio sounds the best it possibly can because good audio equals credibility and credibility equals great podcast.

[00:14:06] And I'm not saying that your podcast audio has to be Dolby THX surround sound, super high def stuff. It just has to sound clear and listenable. So, for example, with this podcast and my client's podcast, I make sure it sounds loud and clear no matter where the listener is physically listening to the podcast. And I've seen this problem happen with a lot of different podcasts.

[00:14:35] Not saying they're bad, but one thing that I have noticed as a podcaster and as audio producer is that the audio levels for a lot of different podcasts, they must be set with like a phone or iPad or something. And when I try to listen back in my work truck, which is usually fairly noisy, it's like I almost had to crank one up to full blast, like almost full blast on the sound system just to be able to make out what they were saying.

[00:15:04] So don't do that. Make it loud and clear and crisp so we all can enjoy and hear what you're saying. Maybe you need to invest in maybe a decent microphone. Speaking of phones and tablets, don't use the microphones on those unless you absolutely have to. Use some noise reduction and simply, once again, master the audio leveling.

[00:15:25] If you need help with that, there are a lot of free resources online right now that you can get to help increase your audio levels. For a mono podcast track, I like to keep it at minus 16 LUFS. L-U-F-S. And for a stereo track, maybe keep it at somewhere around minus 18, minus 20, somewhere around there. But that's what I like to do. Don't get into the red.

[00:15:55] Obviously, that's dead. Don't get it too low. Also, pay attention to that program peak meter. You got a little green bar. It's bouncing back and forth. It goes from green to yellow to red. Well, pay attention to that. Maybe use that as your benchmark for how loud it should be somewhere before it hits yellow and red. And then when you finish your podcast, listen to it. Yeah, I know. It sounds like a no-brainer.

[00:16:21] Yeah, listen back to your own podcast and listen for sound quality. And aside from sound quality, another thing you can do when trying to improve your show, the core elements of your show, is focus on having stronger content and structure. Now, what does this mean? Maybe a little bit in the editing process. Trim the stuff that doesn't really matter.

[00:16:45] If you're going into a story about something crazy and remarkable, but the first 35 minutes is you talking about how you walked your dog around the block, completely unnecessary stuff, well, maybe you can cut that out or move that to the back of the episode. And speaking of episodes, make sure that each of your episodes has a clear purpose.

[00:17:10] When the listener presses play on your episode, the title, the description, and the content within that episode should all match and be in line. And when you're ready to press record on that amazing content you figured out, you want to make sure that you have what is known as an engaging delivery. Basically, do not sound like a robot. Don't sound like you're overly scripted. Oh, my goodness.

[00:17:37] I've heard so many shows that sound like they're reading from a textbook. Oh, my gosh. Try to add some personality, some quirks. Make sure that you sound like you, not like a robot. You know, use some energy, some inflection, and maybe some pacing to keep listeners hooked because that's what it's all about. You want to get your listeners to be hooked to your podcast. Okay, so you're wondering, yeah, that sounds great, Chris. I get it. But how do I actually get real feedback and improve my podcast?

[00:18:06] Like, how do I figure that out? Well, you obviously can just ask your listeners directly. You know, DM maybe your loyal fans on social media. Maybe even send a quick email out. You can ask them like things like, say, for example, what do you love about my podcast? What's one thing that I could do better? Always finish off with something like, what can I do better? Because obviously, you're making the show for them. I'm making the show for you.

[00:18:36] So what are the things that I can do better about this show to help you? See how easy that was? Another thing you can do, I've always said this before, is you can run polls on social media. Now, I know that Instagram stories, Twitter access polls, Facebook groups has it. You can even do polls now on threads. A simple poll right on social media, engaging with your audience, asking them, what do you think? How can I improve?

[00:19:04] How can I make a better show for you? And if that doesn't work, what you can do, which is probably the easiest thing for anybody to do as a podcaster, is to go back and listen to a very old episode of yours. Play one at random. Give it a whirl. Take a listen. And listen as if you are a brand new listener to the show. Pretend you are a first-time listener. Imagine that.

[00:19:34] And then ask yourself, you know, is my intro too long? Do I sound engaging on the podcast? Like, would I stick around? In fact, would I subscribe to this podcast after hearing it? Would it be a show that I would actually subscribe to? You need to ask yourself these questions as you listen to your own show. And the further back in time you go with your podcast, the better.

[00:20:01] Now, I know if you're a brand new podcaster with a brand new podcast, maybe you only have five episodes under your belt. That's kind of hard to do. But maybe go back to episode one or two and see where that one is compared to episode five, six, or seven. And I'm not talking about the downloads. Get that out of your head. I'm not talking, oh, how many downloads did episode one, two, and three get compared to five, six, or seven? Usually it's more for episode one than episode five. It's kind of a weird thing like that. Probably because it's a new thing. People check it out for the very first time.

[00:20:31] Go back and physically listen and listen to what things sound like. This is exactly what pro sports players do. They go back and review film all the time before they go into practice, before they go into their next game. They look at the previous game and see how they performed, what they did right, what they did wrong. They're always looking for ways to perform better so they can win the next game.

[00:20:55] And podcasting, being that it's not directly a game, so to speak, you still want to focus on winning, making sure your podcast is a winner and not a loser podcast. And don't you think it's probably much easier to promote a winner of a podcast over one that's not so great?

[00:21:17] So to recap today, the growth of your podcast doesn't matter if your show isn't even that great in the first place. You should probably improve first. Maybe work on better sound, better content, better delivery, and maybe get some real feedback. Refine, then focus on growth. Growth should not be your very first thing.

[00:21:47] I think a lot of podcasters, they come out right out of the gate thinking, I need to grow this thing so quickly. It needs to be amazing. I need a huge audience right now. Why? Why do you need a huge audience right now? What are you selling? What are you doing? What are you getting? Oh, I need a big audience so I can get ads and sponsors and blah, blah, blah. Nonsense. Well, did you even check to see if your show is even any good? No. Grandma said it was great. I don't know.

[00:22:14] Well, let me take a listen. And I find out that it's got seconds of silence and it's got minutes of gaps. You're talking about nothing. It's got random bumps and microphone things and randomness. It's like as if we stumbled into your chaos. Hey, maybe that's your podcast. Maybe that's what it's about. Just pure chaos. Here you go. Hey, there's probably a podcast for everybody. I get it.

[00:22:40] But if you want to make sure your podcast is amazing before you focus on should I spend money on growing this thing? Make sure it's good in the first place. And that's something that I see a lot of podcasters skip that part. Let's make sure that your show is amazing moving through 2025 and beyond. If you need any help, you always can contact me at podtasticaudio.com. I got all kinds of cool things right over there. Links to all my social media. All kinds of cool stuff. And coming soon.

[00:23:10] Yeah. Mark your calendars. I don't know when. But coming soon, I'm going to have some amazing new, amazing new tools ready to download directly from podtasticaudio.com for free. You heard that right. Entirely for free for you. Because, well, I love you. And that's what I do. I'm all about spreading the love. I'm all about making sure that I can help you create your amazing podcast. Once again, I am Chris. And that is at podcasticaudio.com.

[00:23:40] Hit that subscribe button. And I will see you on the very next episode. That's only if you hit that subscribe button. And I'll see you then. And until then, happy podcasting.