189 | Why Celebrity Podcasts Succeed (And How Indie Podcasters Can Compete)

[00:00:00] Why do celebrity podcasts get millions of downloads even when they're just too long and unedited ramblings while us indie podcasters actually have to work for every single listener? Oh, and check this out. There's a study that says people who obsess with celebrities might actually be a little less intelligent.

[00:00:28] Sound matters. Be heard. Welcome to the podcast where you get exclusive behind the scenes tips to make your own show sound truly spectacular. This is Podtastic Audio. Hey, what's happening? How are you doing today? Thank you so much for being here. I am Chris and you clicked on the right

[00:00:53] show at the right time at the right place. This is the world famous Podtastic Audio. And I have created this show to help you make your amazing show. And that is what it's all about. Me making podcasting fun and for everyone. If you have a podcast or maybe you're thinking of maybe starting a podcast, you're like, I don't know what I'm going to talk about, or I don't know how to do a show or how to record audio. Listen, it was confusing for me too. When I first

[00:01:22] got started this whole podcasting game, I didn't know nothing about nothing. I just followed what other bigger shows or perhaps maybe like the radio morning shows. I kind of followed what they were doing, thinking about topics, about things they were doing and realizing that was a huge mistake. But have you ever wondered why some famous actor, maybe an athlete, lots of those, or a comedian can launch a podcast

[00:01:51] and talk about absolutely nothing for two hours. And yet those shows still gets millions of downloads. And yet at the very same time, us indie podcasters are out there grinding, editing, making every second of our show sound super engaging. And yet we're still struggling to grow. It's kind of frustrating, right?

[00:02:17] Well, don't you worry. Today we're diving into exactly why this happens and why you as an indie podcaster actually have an advantage if you play your cards right. Plus I found this super cool study that says people who are obsessed with celebrities actually tend to score lower on the intelligence test. What? Yeah, we're going there. Stick around. It's going to be a fun one.

[00:02:44] But first things first, if you're having an amazing time creating your podcast, if creating the thing you're doing, no matter what you're talking about, no matter what your show is covering, if you're enjoying doing what you're doing, keep on keeping on. It's your show. Having fun is actually a great goal to have when creating a podcast.

[00:03:07] Even though you're having a podcast. Even though you may get small download numbers and very small audience reach. But if you're having fun talking about the things you want to talk about, then that's all you need. You're having a successful show. But given everything you know about podcasting, everything that I've said about podcasting, what works, what doesn't work, why do celebrities get away with bad podcasting?

[00:03:33] They pretty much break all the rules when it comes to creating a podcast. Let's start with the obvious one. Why do celebrity podcasts thrive even when they're unedited, long-winded, and sometimes, well, most of the time, they're just plain boring. It's because their fame is the hook. People listen because they already know them.

[00:04:00] It doesn't matter what they talk about. If you're a diehard fan of, say, I don't know, Matthew McConaughey, you're going to probably hear from him ramble about the meaning of life for two hours. But us indie podcasters, we don't have that luxury. Listeners won't stick around unless we give them a reason to stick around, which is why the celebrities do not have niche podcasts.

[00:04:27] They don't need a niche because they are the brand. Look at Joe Rogan, for example. So on Rogan's podcast, there is no clear theme. He talks about everything from aliens to MMA fighters to mushrooms to everything between with celebrities. And he talks to presidents and all that great stuff. And it works because people follow him and not so much the content. I said this once and I'll say it again.

[00:04:56] And I will listen to whatever Joe says because it's Joe Rogan. But being that Joe already is a celebrity, a big celebrity, aside from the podcast, he's a celebrity. He brings on guests onto his show who are also big time celebrities. So the big time guests actually keep them relevant. So let's say even if an episode is all over the place, the big time guest alone draws in the listeners.

[00:05:26] So you will notice this with Joe Rogan's podcast. For example, the titles of the episode are basically just the name of the guest. That's all there is to it because people are going to be drawn to the name. Like I said, the fame of the person is the hook itself. So even if the episode is like all over the place, the big guests will draw in people to listen because of the big name.

[00:05:53] Meanwhile, you know, us small time indie podcasters here have to work to make every single episode compelling. And I've seen some of the indie podcasters. Maybe you're one of them that do interview shows are always chasing the bigger name guests for their shows.

[00:06:14] And I think the reason why is because they see other shows with big name celebrities that have a celebrity come on and they realize, well, the celebrity fame of that celebrity is what's going to draw people to the show. Now, speaking of Joe Rogan, if you ever watched or listened to Joe Rogan's podcast, you may realize that it is about three hours long per episode and they are completely unedited.

[00:06:43] Now, why can a celebrity get away with a three hour unedited podcast? And yet us indie podcasters wouldn't even dare doing that. Maybe you do. Listen, your show is your show. You can do your show however you want. But there's a reason why his show can go long winded and unedited. And if an indie podcaster tried doing something like that, people will tune out after 10 minutes at the most.

[00:07:13] We don't get that kind of patience from a new listener. When a new listener clicks on your show, you better be ready to go deliver exactly what's promised in the episode. Get right to the point because you only have one shot to hook them. And celebrity and celebrity shows are already famous before they even started their podcast. They already have a built-in audience coming to them.

[00:07:37] And because they're a big name and because they're already popular, a lot of the platforms like Apple, Spotify, YouTube prioritize these big names, which means they automatically get visibility while any podcasters have to grind and grind out the work for every single listener we get.

[00:07:57] Now, I have touched on it a little bit in this episode so far, but I'm going to give you the reasons why it is not a good idea for us indie podcasters to kind of follow the celebrity path of creating a podcast. Why that formula fails for us indie podcasters.

[00:08:17] Now, I've seen some indie podcasters, not a ton lately, but I have seen a bunch, especially during the pandemic, that would kind of follow the random talk about anything. We're going to do exactly like the celebrities do their show. We're going to follow the Rogan format of having a guest come on.

[00:08:39] We're going to talk about anything and everything, maybe pop a few drinks, get drunk and record for three hours unedited and throw it together and then see what happens and throw it out on the podcasting podcast space and wonder why our show isn't even that popular. Why are we not getting massive download numbers? Even a fraction of what Joe Rogan gets. Why are we not getting any of that stuff?

[00:09:05] Well, it's because nobody knows who you are. I know, I know, I know. Maybe your coworkers know who you are. Maybe your mom, dad, cousins, brothers, sisters, family members, they know who you are. But the rest of the world does not, which means you have no built-in audience other than your family, of course. But nobody is waiting around for your next episode unless you give them a reason to care.

[00:09:35] And that's the problem. You got to give them a reason to care. If you're all over the place, people aren't going to stick around for that. If your show is about eight different things and it's all random nonsense, and especially if it's unedited, oh my goodness, and it ran for three hours? Oh, man. I can't imagine anybody collecting an audience based on that formula as an indie podcaster.

[00:10:00] A popular choice I've seen for the indie podcasters, which seem to fail, is the general discussion shows. We're going to talk about everything, anything. General shows, here we come. Well, those kind of shows get lost in all the noise. You know, if your podcast is about random discussions, it blends in with thousands of others.

[00:10:26] And if you want to stand out in a podcast space, have a niche podcast. Have a podcast that is about one particular topic. If you're a Star Wars show, great. If you're a show about Marvel movies, great. But if you want to go one step further, maybe your podcast is about Iron Man. Now, that's pretty specific.

[00:10:50] That is pretty niche to have a Marvel Iron Man only podcast versus comic books in general. Or maybe even like nerd topics and geek topics in general. But if you narrow it down to say Iron Man and Iron Man only, that's pretty niche. You're pretty much going to stand out versus all of the random other podcasts out there. And as a brand new show, you're trying to get brand new listeners.

[00:11:17] And if you're trying to get brand new listeners, you need to make sure that you hook them right away. Because new listeners will decide very quickly whether or not they're going to stick around with your show. Most people, they'll sample a podcast and decide within maybe two to three minutes whether they're going to stay or not. So if there's no clear focus on your random discussion show, they're gone. They're not coming back. And you might already know this as an indie podcaster.

[00:11:47] But it's probably harder to get discovered as an indie show versus a celebrity show. You know, the algorithms, they don't really favor us, you know, smaller newcomers. They do seem to favor the much famous, bigger name celebrities. So if you want to get discovered as an indie podcaster, you need to be specific.

[00:12:14] The riches are in the niches, as they say. So if you can, be specific. If you can, find a niche that works best for you. Dive in as a indie hobby podcaster. Go for it. It's your show. Do what you want. But I'm saying if you want to try to be broad and you want to try to cover everything and anything, anything in the news.

[00:12:38] Like we are the general discussion show about everything that walks on earth, you know, as broad as it possibly can be. Well, good luck with that. So speaking of niching down as a indie hobby podcaster, it is very important. And I highly recommend, if possible, to niche down your show. This is where the indie hobby podcasters have the real advantage. Niching down is your secret weapon.

[00:13:07] Okay, so this is how it kind of works. If you niche down your podcast, it actually helps you become an expert in that particular field. If your podcast is about a specific topic, you become the go-to person for that. Instead of me competing with the big names, you own a small dedicated space that you own.

[00:13:37] You're the expert. And on a side note on this, I did an episode a while back about solo episodes versus the interview-only everybody episodes. And if you want to be known as the expert on your show, in your field, in your niche, then you got to do more solo episodes than group episodes or interview episodes. I'm talking like I'm doing right now a completely solo. No other voices or people are on this show right now.

[00:14:06] No, just me all by myself talking directly to you, which allows me to showcase myself as the expert versus the guest I bring in as the expert. That's just a little side note on that if you're looking to become an expert in your niche. And I know you're probably thinking, hey, Chris, those big-time celebrities get massive downloads. They are so popular. Oh, my goodness. They pretty much can fart in a microphone and get so many different downloads. They're so big.

[00:14:35] I'm just a little guy. I get small numbers, maybe 10, 20, or maybe 100 or less downloads per episode. What does that do for me? It's small. What does that mean? Well, these smaller audiences usually mean higher engagement. What? Did I just blow your mind right there?

[00:14:54] A podcast about, say, marketing for personal trainers will have a small but passionate audience that actually listens, engages, and shares. But before they can even share your episode, they got to find it. Now, how do they find it? By you having a niche podcast. Because having a niche podcast works really well with SEO. That's search engine optimization.

[00:15:23] So, in search, for example, if your show is called, let's just say, the RV entrepreneur, it will show up when people search for that topic. Because nobody is searching for random discussion show. Who searches for that? If your show is random discussions, I don't think anybody is searching random discussions into Google right now for something to listen to. I doubt it. Maybe, but I doubt it.

[00:15:51] And with having a super niche show, the fans of that show actually care about the content. Wow. Imagine that. They're not there for you. Well, and not yet they're there for you. They actually press play because of the topic of the content, of your niche, of your podcast.

[00:16:15] And if you deliver and you make it fun and engaging and have a great personality to go with that content, it is a win-win. And they will stay and subscribe. Oh, which reminds me, hit subscribe to this show right now on your podcast player you're listening to right now. It's very second. That'd be cool. Thank you so much. Okay. Now it comes to the fun part of the podcast episode today. So there was a study out probably a few years ago, and it basically said this.

[00:16:44] It said that celebrity obsession, meaning that if you are somebody that actually obsessed over celebrities, and I've seen a lot of podcasters do this. They're chasing celebrities for their podcast. Oh, if I only get this celebrity in my podcast. Oh, my goodness. It's going to be amazing. It's going to be like heaven opened up. The gates of heaven are right in front of me. Hallelujah. I got this big time celebrity. I got a crush on this celebrity. Oh, my goodness. I follow the celebrities every move.

[00:17:13] The scientific study said that people who are obsessed with celebrities tend to have a lower intelligence score. What? That sounds pretty obvious for some people. And some people might be like, what are you talking about? I love celebrities. I follow their every move. I don't know what you're talking about. Well, this study published by the BMC Psychology. I will put a link to the article in the show notes of this episode if you want to follow along.

[00:17:41] So they found out that the more someone worships celebrities, the lower they scored on cognitive tests. Basically, if someone is way too invested in celebrity culture, they're problem solving and critical thinking skills take a massive hit. Wow. Think about that.

[00:18:04] If you are doing a show based on celebrities or maybe you're thinking about getting a celebrity on your show because you want to talk to that celebrity because maybe you yourself are obsessed with celebrities. What does that even really mean about you and your show?

[00:18:24] You know, maybe this explains why people will listen to famous podcasters talk about absolutely nonsense nothing for three hours and still come back for more. Meanwhile, you know, us indie podcasters actually have to work to keep every single listener entertained and engaged all throughout our entire podcasting process. Okay, so here's the bottom line.

[00:18:51] We're not famous actors or musicians who can coast on our name and names alone that make an amazing podcast or a podcast that's going to draw in thousands, if not millions of listeners, which each and every single episode. We're just indie podcasters. We don't have the luxury of rambling on for hours and hours expecting people to care.

[00:19:15] But what we do have is the ability to build an audience that actually wants what we're delivering. By picking a niche, staying focused, and respecting our listeners' time, we can build something better than the Celebrity Ramble Fest shows can ever do. And a quick side note about a lot of those celebrity-style podcasts.

[00:19:42] Now, not all of them, but some of the ones that I have heard and listened to, I stopped listening to because they were unrelatable to me. The things they talk about, the trips they went on, the issues they had with this assistant, this manager, this set, that thing, this Ferrari's in the shop, that Lamborghini's there, and so on and so forth. I can't relate to those kind of things.

[00:20:06] But I do understand the draw to those things because a lot of listeners get to hear the inside scoops to what's going on within the celebrity's life. Things that we possibly would never get to see on screen or whatever behind the scenes type stuff. And I do get the draw to that kind of stuff.

[00:20:26] But having to deal with like a three-hour podcast just to hear the two minutes of important stuff within that three-hour window, it's got to be a struggle. Hey, if this episode gave you something to think about, maybe you're starting your podcast. Maybe you've been podcasting for years and years, but it's been about random nothingness. Maybe you should think about, maybe, that your podcast probably should niche down.

[00:20:55] And if you're starting a podcast from the ground up, like you have not even recorded episode one yet, maybe think about it. Think about what are you going to talk about? What is your show going to be about and cannot be about everything? It is not a general discussion show. You are not a celebrity. Unless you are. Now, you could be a celebrity. I don't know. But if you are not, chances are you're not, then you can't get away with what the celebrities do with their show.

[00:21:25] And if you've enjoyed this podcast, let me know. There's ways you can do that. You can actually reach out to me on my website. That is podcasticaudio.com. I've got a contact form right there, links to all my social medias. And, of course, you always can leave me a review on Apple, Spotify, whatever podcast player there are out there. I don't even know. But anyways, you know the big ones. But it all happens right through my website. That is podcasticaudio.com.

[00:21:55] And I can't wait to hear from you. And you keep on making your amazing podcast. And I'll catch you next time. Happy podcasting.