203 | Why Most Podcast Interviews Fail (And How to Fix Yours)

[00:00:00] Think that just slapping a guest on your podcast is going to make it great? Yeah, well, good luck with that. Interviews are everywhere and most are a total snooze fest. Let's fix that and make yours the one people actually want to hear.

[00:00:22] Sound matters. Be heard. Welcome to the podcast where you get exclusive behind the scenes tips to make your own show sound truly spectacular. This is Podtastic Audio. What's happening? How are you doing today? Thank you so much for being here. I truly do mean that. Thank you so much. I am Chris and yeah, you clicked on the right show at the right time at the right place,

[00:00:50] baby. This is Podtastic Audio. You know, I love podcasting and more specifically, I actually love audio podcasting. Why audio is in the name? And one super cool tool to help you make your amazing podcast is Riverside.fm. Today's episode is brought to you by Riverside and whether you're recording interviews because a lot of people do interviews. Now, whether it's your first interview or your 100th interview, Riverside makes it insanely easy to sound and look your best like a pro.

[00:01:19] With crystal clear audio and up to 4k video and new features like this AI generated show notes, magic clips and automatic transcription, you'll have everything you need to create professional quality content right from inside your computer browser. Nothing to download, nothing to install. Now you can use Riverside right now for free up to two hours for free.

[00:01:45] Test it out, do an interview or two, try it out, see if you actually like it. But if you want to unlock all the potential of Riverside, you got to upgrade to the pro plan. And you want to do that with my discount code of Podtastic because with that discount code, it's going to get you is 15% off any paid plan. That's right. Promo code Podtastic. But Riverside.fm and start making interviews. That don't just sound good. They sound amazing.

[00:02:38] At some point. Not always all the time, not every time, but I'm saying at some point, there's always going to be an episode in there that is some kind of an interview style of a show. And it very well could be because of all the updates and technology that has allowed us to do really good interviews and make them easy peasy over the internet with anybody with a laptop can do an amazing interview and have it sound great and look great with tools like Riverside.

[00:03:07] And of course, you got other tools like Zoom and Squadcast. And of course, if you're doing audio only, there's clean feed, things like that. But if you go back like maybe to 2015, 2010, I'm sure there was Skype and this probably was the only real way to do interviews. Of course, Skype's dead now. RIP, they shut Skype down. I never really used Skype. In fact, I never even used it at all when I think about it.

[00:03:30] So I pretty much jumped on FaceTime when that came out. But that was one way that people could communicate and do interviews over the internet. And it's probably not as good as all the cool tools you have today. There's so many cool things you can do today in podcasting. There's so many ways to communicate with somebody else anywhere in the world. Capture the audio, record that audio, edit that audio, and make it into something quite amazing for the audience to listen to.

[00:03:57] Share it with people. Hey, check out my cool interview I just did. Check this cool thing out. And I think as an indie podcaster, we're probably very curious about things outside our orbit, outside our little bubble. That's kind of like it was for me when I got into doing interviews on the Chris Christine Show. It was very cool to talk to people that obviously were not in the same city as us and also learning their experiences and learning things about them.

[00:04:23] So it's very easy to get into this like I want to talk to new people and figure out what makes them tick. Like what troubles are they going through? What cures do they have? What answers do they have? What are they going through? Just things, just natural conversation with somebody that actually recognizes that you have a podcast. They give you some kind of like validation that, yeah, you were doing a podcast right now. You have a show. I'm going to go on your show. So you have a show.

[00:04:52] So it also kind of validates the podcaster himself as the indie podcaster that, yeah, you have a podcast. It's great. It also builds an amazing community because the more interviews you do, the more friendships you make, the more people can either be on your show or share your show or listen to your show. It's a great tool for networking and growing a community. But, well, I think you knew there was a but coming on.

[00:05:18] But just because interviews are easy to do with tools like Riverside, shout out with my promo code PODtastic for 15% off. Check that out. But just because there are tools that are super easy to do this, it doesn't mean they're done very well. Okay, if you can remember back to 2020, back when there was COVID and people were locked down, everyone's doing this whole Zoom schooling thing and everybody's trying to do Zoom with their laptops and all that cool stuff. Remember those good old days of COVID?

[00:05:47] Well, during the pandemic, there was a big push for everybody being at home doing these video conferencing tools like Zoom. And 2020 was probably the biggest year and the biggest spike for podcasting, maybe even YouTube channels too, maybe social media too. But I definitely know in podcasting specifically, there was a big gold rush, rush to podcasting.

[00:06:10] Probably because, like I said, you're locked down, you're bored, you want to talk to your buddies on the whole Zoom chats or Zoom parties or whatever they're doing. And why not make a podcast out of that? We're all drinking, hanging out anyways, talking on this video thing. Oh, there's a record button? Check that out. Hey, Bobby, you know how to add audio, right? Yeah, we'll just record everything, send it to Bobby over there and Bobby will make it a podcast. Hey, Jimmy, you can draw a crayon and make an artwork, right? Can't you? Yeah, great. You draw an artwork.

[00:06:36] It'll be called Four Buds and a Beer and a microphone and a Zoom chat. I don't know. And they'll make it a podcast. So yeah, a lot of these tools like Zoom made it incredibly easy to start a podcast and make it and then take it one step further.

[00:06:51] However, because Zoom is so easy for conferencing, because it's so easy to invite guests into your orbit and do a show together, then why not send the link out and have that other person, that other guest join in to your world and have a conversation, do an interview. Which I can see can be very, very exciting, especially during the pandemic, when you can't really travel anywhere. You can't really go visit people. You're not really supposed to anyways.

[00:07:20] And so here's this tool that you can have conversations, not only with your friends, but you can have conversations with other people. And so for the first time really is that us indie podcasters had the opportunity to do something that we really couldn't ever do before is talk to strangers around the world, talk to people that we probably had no real reason talking to in the first place.

[00:07:48] So what this did for podcasters, at least new podcasters, is that there was often like it took off some of the pressure of trying to like do a show all on your own in front of the camera, which can be very intimidating even for me. That's why I do things mostly audio only. But if you have a guest right there, you don't feel alone. You're doing it with another person. You have something bounce off each other.

[00:08:13] Even if it is a guest, even if it's something you don't really know, but you can ask them questions and you can have them kind of like carry on the conversation. You can kind of like jump in, like ask a few follow-ups and kind of like have a conversation. I think we're built around having conversations. Listen, I could do solo shows and it's not for everybody. And I get that. And there are some people that absolutely could never, ever do a solo episode. They have to have a guest or a person they're talking to. They just have to have it that way.

[00:08:40] And if the podcaster is interviewing somebody who is somewhat famous, somewhat popular, somewhat well-known, it feels like a super big win. It feels incredibly exciting as an indie show. Be talking to somebody that you have no right to be talking to. And you hope, and this doesn't always happen, but you always hope that that person you interview is going to share this episode. If I interview them, they will share this episode with their mega audience.

[00:09:09] But it doesn't always work that way. But as an indie podcaster, at least I felt this trap too, is that if we interview somebody that's got a really big audience, at least on Instagram, you see their big following on Instagram. Like, wow, they got a big following. If they just share this episode with their big following, then their big following is going to be our big following. Hey, let me know if that works out for you because it didn't work out for us. But interviews, you know, they feel like a natural starting point, obviously.

[00:09:37] I mean, you start your show, interviews, let's do this, book guests. I get it. I really do. But the excitement alone doesn't guarantee great content. It's about what you do with that conversation. So, yeah, doing interviews can definitely help you grow your podcast. I know your ears are perking up when you hear that one. But you have to do interviews correctly and not everyone does them right.

[00:10:03] So, but yeah, when it comes to doing a podcast and doing interviews for your podcast, it is a fantastic way to build your network. It is a fantastic way to build your community. When you talk to guests, it basically creates meaningful connections. So, it's a great way to build your circle and then maybe get your name out there. I mean, circle your podcast around like, hey, be a guest on my show. I interviewed X, Y, and Z. Check that out. Here you go.

[00:10:29] It also keeps your content kind of fresh and gives a little bit of variety. A fresh voice may be on the show, not only yours, but somebody completely different. It can possibly keep your show dynamic and engaging for your audience. Now, also, another key thing about doing interviews is that it lets you explore topics you're curious about and that you have no idea about.

[00:10:50] You bring on the expert so that you can have a natural, curious conversation about the things you're curious about that hopefully your audience is also curious about those same things. So, you bring on the expert guest. But, well, there's probably a lot of buts in this episode now that I think about it. But if you're having guest interviews on your show, if you're doing guest interview only on your show, you're not building your authority. You're building their authority. They are the star.

[00:11:20] They're the ones that are important. They're the ones that your audience is going to remember, not you. So, think of it like this. You have the stage. You're bringing the expert on the stage. It takes center stage. Your audience sees them as the authority and not really you at all. When you do interviews, your role in the interview is only there to be the guide. That's it.

[00:11:46] Your questions, your framing, your reactions, that's where your value and expertise are going to shine through. That is it. You're not the expert. They are. So, you can use interviews to complement your content, not to carry it. And that's the problem with a lot of shows I've seen is they have the guests basically carry the entire show. Make sure you're part of the story, not just the person holding the mic. But let's be real here.

[00:12:15] We've all been there interviewing guests just because we can, not because we actually should. There are a lot of indie shows out there. Most of them are probably gone. I think a lot of these were definitely picked up during the pandemic. But a lot of shows, I kind of fell in the trap too in the early days of this show and the early days of the Chris Christine show is that when you start doing guest interviews, you realize that because we can do guest interviews that any guest will do. We'll bring on anybody with a pulse.

[00:12:45] You got a podcast. You got something going on. You want to come on our show? Be a friend and come on our show. That would be amazing. So, a lot of shows fall in this habit of saying yes to anyone willing to be interviewed. Now, what usually happens with that is that episodes feel random or off brand. They don't feel like they're part of anything, anything really at all. The content is all over the place. Some of the people on the show don't know how to do interviews.

[00:13:11] And so, what happens is that the audience tunes in and they're like, what am I listening to? This doesn't make any sense. The audio is way off. Nobody's got a microphone. What the hell is this garbage? And so, a lot of indie shows did this format. And trust me, I'm guilty of this myself, although we did have microphones. But we brought people on that probably had no business being on a show. In fact, I remember we interviewed one girl once. It was so horrible. Her audio was bad.

[00:13:42] Her conversation was flat and boring. She had nothing important to say. It was basically like one word answers, yes or no. And it was very hard. It was pulling teeth to get her to say anything. So, basically, after it was over, did we release that episode? Absolutely not. That thing's dead, buried, deleted. And at the same time, your audience is completely confused like crazy. They're like, what is going on? This doesn't make any sense. This show is about this. They're talking about something completely different.

[00:14:11] This person doesn't make any sense at all. I wouldn't listen to this person even if they paid me to. Why are they bringing this person on? Their content doesn't make any sense. It's all over the place. Now, it may not be the guest's fault. I know. Everybody wants to blame the guest for everything. It may not be their fault. It could be that most of us indie podcasters aren't trained journalists. We're not experts at this. This is probably our very first interview.

[00:14:38] If maybe you do interviewing as an HR representative for your company, that's one thing. But even then, those aren't really interesting conversations. Can you imagine if an interview you did or interview you're on was exactly like an HR job interview? How boring would that be? So, that's one thing about being an indie podcaster. We're figuring this out as we go along.

[00:15:02] And sometimes, as an indie show, as an indie interviewer, we kind of miss the chance to dig deeper, ask strong follow-up questions, or shape the conversation to the listener. Figure out what the listener would like to hear. Not what we want to talk about or what we want to hear in the moment. Always be thinking about the listener. I think indie shows do not do that. An indie podcaster does make these mistakes when they do interviews. And a lot of shows do interviews right at the beginning.

[00:15:31] Another big one, when you do interviews, is that most of us indie podcasters, those who are not trained as journalists, not trained in doing this kind of stuff, is that we keep the conversation very neutral. You kind of keep it at this basic, surface-level chit-chats that don't really resonate and definitely do not pull out any great stories out of the guest. You want to get great stories out of a guest.

[00:15:56] And I think that most indie podcasters that do interviews lack this skill or don't think about it in the moment because you're facing the guest face-to-face. You're kind of nervous. You're nervous being there. You're nervous recording. It's your first episode. Maybe it's your 10th episode. And trying to go deeper and trying to get really good stories out of a guest might feel a little intimidating. I get it. Trust me. Interviews aren't just conversations. They're performances. They need prep. They need purpose.

[00:16:24] And they need a clear connection to what your audience actually came for. Okay, so what makes a good interview versus a bad interview? So do you want me to go over the good side first or the bad side first? Let's slip a coin and find out. Okay, it looks like my invisible coin here. I flipped it in the air. You can't see this. But we're going to do the good side first. So what makes a good interview? With a good interview, the guest that you bring on is somewhat known.

[00:16:55] Now, this does not need to be somebody famous. This does not have to be Tom Cruise. It does not have to be anybody of that caliber. It just has to have something relevant enough to your audience for them to have a reason to care about what they have to say. Now, this can be a little tricky because sometimes we think because somebody was on a show and somebody was on a movie and somebody was part of a movie or somebody was on a band or somebody was in something like that, that they're important to your audience.

[00:17:23] So let's just say, for example, you had a podcast about motorsports cars. And the guest you had on was an author of a book because he was a driver in some motorsport race. That kind of makes sense. He's somewhat famous, somewhat well-known. So he has a little bit of clout, a little bit of credibility. And he's going to be on your show, which is filled with an audience that likes motorsports. So it all kind of ties together.

[00:17:50] And keeping things tied together, it's also important that that guest you bring on actually does fit your show's content or maybe the theme of your show. So just like the motorsports thing, if they're in that content, if they're in that world, it makes sense bringing them on, doesn't it? Their expertise, their experiences should serve your listeners, not distract them. Your audience came for this type of content. Find guests that actually serve that type of content.

[00:18:20] And when it comes to bringing a guest on, now this is kind of an important one, no matter who you bring on, is that they have some kind of energy and personality. I cannot tell you how distracting, how boring a guest can be if they are just doing one-word answers or not really answering things at all. Being very dry. Literally phoning it in as it were. Like totally phoning it in. Not even wanting to be there. Acting like they don't want to be there. You can get that vibe.

[00:18:50] They feel it. The audience feels it too. So they're flat. Have a monotone delivery. Or even with great... Even they had great content. Even if it's the most amazing things in the world, like the top 10 results on how to be the most famous person in the world or whatever it could be. Even if their content is solid stuff, it will kill the episode's momentum if they have a boring delivery. And one extra bonus tip for making a good interview, because why not, right? Is that if the guest you have on can tell a really good story.

[00:19:20] Obviously, right? A good guest, when you get a really good guest, you'll know because they will tell you a really good story. They will know how to deliver that so well that as the listener, you're going to be hooked. You're going to be listening to everything you have to say. You'll be tuned in to what happens next when you have a guest that can tell a really good story. So we're going to flip things right now and tell you what makes a bad interview.

[00:19:48] Now, some of these things, well, probably most of these things are probably pretty obvious. So here's what makes a bad interview. If the guest you have on has absolutely zero energy, they are completely dead to the world on conversation. They have no excitement at all, no passion, no direction, just talking for the sake of talking, kind of like in this monotone, boring tone. Well, yeah, that's a bad interview.

[00:20:18] Who wants to listen to that? Another thing is that when you bring a guest on and you're thinking they're going to talk about X, Y, and Z, and they start talking about something completely different, irrelevant content, even if it's interesting just a little bit, it may not align with your show's theme. You're talking about horror stuff and you got this dude coming on talking about doing the dishes with the best laundry detergent and what kind of dishwasher is the best and things like that. You're like, what are you talking about?

[00:20:47] That doesn't make any sense. It only confuses and bores your audience and you do not want to bore your audience. You bore your audience, they're gone. Another thing that makes a bad interview is the lack of good storytelling or maybe just poor storytelling, boring storytelling. You know, even if the guest has really, really good content, but it's badly told, well, guess what? That still is bad content. Don't just deliver facts.

[00:21:16] Deliver them with some flair. Make it exciting. Make it worth the audience's time. They want to be there to hear something amazing. Deliver that, not just the data, not just the one, two, threes. Make them exciting. And I know that you have a bad guest on the show and the guest just talks that way and they do things exactly like that. They deliver their facts and their data in this monotone, boring tone. Well, guess what? Just because the content looks good on paper doesn't mean the guest knows how to say that

[00:21:45] into a microphone and make it sound interesting. And one more thing on what makes a bad interview. I mentioned this earlier with that horrible guest we had is that short, closed answers are the death of a podcast. Death of an interview, let me tell you. So try to avoid yes or no questions. Use open-ended prompts like, you know, tell me about the time when or maybe something like, what was going through your mind when?

[00:22:14] And then you kind of fill in the blank from there. But a great interview isn't always about who's speaking. It's about how the conversation unfolds. So try prepping your guest before you hit record. Get them on. You can do a pre-interview, but I know a lot of us are busy. So pre-interviews are kind of out of the question, at least for me. So what I do is that when we would have somebody come on as a guest, the first like 10, 15 minutes,

[00:22:43] other than like figuring out the technical problems of everything, you should use this time to prep your guest. Get them an idea of what your show is about. Guide them through the flow of the conversation. Guide them through the talking points of things you want to talk about in this interview. We want to cover this, this, and this. I mean, I have these questions written down, but I want to tell you the flow of the conversation, how it's going to go, how long we have till, and just make it feel like a very inviting space for that guest you brought on for that interview.

[00:23:11] Okay, so now I'm going to touch a little bit on the biggest myth in podcasting, the biggest myth when it comes to doing guest interviews. And we'd like to guess what that big myth really is in podcasting, especially as an indie hobby podcaster. Well, I touched on it earlier and you're probably thinking the same thing is that if you have a big famous guest on your show,

[00:23:37] that your show is going to become instantly famous, instantly successful. Well, I hate to break it to you just because you booked this big name. Well, that's great. Congratulations. Holly Lily. Amazing. Sounds great. Hope you have a great conversation, but it doesn't guarantee downloads. It doesn't guarantee success. It doesn't guarantee that the listeners are even going to care. Now, maybe about a month ago or so, I was on social media, probably Threads, I think it was.

[00:24:07] And somebody was posting about how they were excited to book somebody famous for their show or somebody, a big name or something like that, super big. I don't know. And I kind of questioned them on that. I said, what's so great about this person? Are they going to be delivering amazing value to your audience? Well, I sure hope so. I hope you're not super excited because of the name of the person. I hope you're excited because they can bring amazing value. And that's the problem.

[00:24:37] A big, well-known guest may bring clout. It may bring notoriety. It may bring some kind of fame to the show. I get that. But if they're not really delivering something your audience needs to hear, well, then that episode's probably going to fall flat, crash and burn. And sometimes these big name guests, guess what? They've been on a million different other shows. Lots of different shows telling the same story over and over and over again.

[00:25:06] They're just recycled stories. Just rinse and repeat. Put them over all over again. So what makes your interview any different than all the other interviews they've done, especially interviews with big productions and big shows versus your little indie hobby podcast? Tell them the same story. If you're thinking about going after these big A-listers or B-listers or semi-lister celebrities, you need to start thinking about the audience.

[00:25:33] Think of your audience first, not the guest. You need to ask yourself, what specific value will this guest bring to my listeners? If you can't find it, well, then don't bring them on. Another thing is, what unique angle can we explore that hasn't already been heard a million times before? Because sometimes we'll get a guest come on and they'll say, you can't talk about this, this, and this. I'm not talking about these things.

[00:26:02] Well, I want to talk about the arrest. You were just arrested last week. It's all over TMZ. I want to talk about that. No, I can't talk about that. Well, what are we going to talk about then? Because that's the only reason I'm bringing you on. That's the only reason why you're popular. That's the only reason people care is about that one thing. Now we seem to can't talk about it. We're going to talk about something else. How boring. Or they won't even talk about anything. How boring is that? And another thing you need to ask yourself before you think about bringing on a big-name guest on your show

[00:26:27] is that you need to think, does this big-name guest, does this guest right here, how can this guest help my audience solve a real problem? And the thing is, is that great interviews aren't just about the names. Because a big-name famous person can deliver a horrible interview just like anybody else. And a nobody that is down the street, somebody has great insights,

[00:26:55] can deliver dialogue and is excited to be there, can give you an amazing interview. And you wouldn't even know because you're too busy hunting down the big-name guests. You know, great interviews aren't always about the names. They're about the need. Your job is to make sure the episode speaks to your audience's challenges, curiosities, and goals. Hey, thanks again for listening all the way to the very end of this episode.

[00:27:23] I really appreciate you spending your time with me today. I do these shows for you. I do this podcast for you directly. And if this episode made you rethink about how you do podcast interviews, or possibly maybe how you can do them a little bit better, that'd be great too. Share this episode with another fellow podcaster. That'd be cool. If you have my permission, go ahead and share it. Little share tab right on the podcast player. Share it. That would be amazing. I would really appreciate that.

[00:27:51] And if you want to know more about me, you can find me at podtasticaudio.com. Links to all my socials right there. Hey, if you want to send me a note directly, like directly to me, yeah, you can do that right at podtasticaudio.com. And you keep on making your amazing podcast with your amazing content, your amazing interview skills you just learned. And I'll catch you on the next one. Happy podcasting.